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I am.
See, I was in this community for shabbos this week. And I show up to where I’m eating, and we are eating outside.
One problem: I don’t use the eruv, because the person who decides halacha for this eruv, is a Yeshivat Chovevei Torah grad, and I don’t trust him. I think they are not frum; they are not kosher for edus, their meat is treif, their wine is yayin nesech, their weddings are not weddings, their gerim are goyim, their gittin are posul. That is my opinion. So I don’t use the eruv.
So I didn’t know what to do. And I have never learned the sugyos of hotza’a.
So I’ve got this friend who was there. This friend learned for a number of years, and has smicha from some joint in Israel. And knows a lot. He also is no longer frum.
So my friend tells me that it is no problem, because the tables are big enough and high enough to be like the ?? in halacha (of which I knew nothing) and that you can carry on them. He tells me he is sure. So I sat down.
But then I was still uncomfortable, so I decided to go inside and look that up. But they don’t have a shmiras shabbos khilchosoh, and don’t have a mishna berura. They have a shulchan aruch.
So my friend comes in and tells me which siman, and meanwhile says he is more comfortable with the shulchan aruch harav (he was chabad) and is that good enough for me? I say yes.
So we find that halacha, but I’m still uncomfortable, because I’m not convinced the tables are big enough (they were round, and also it says they need to be 4×4 ??????? which is really 5 and a bit).
But then I find a bfeirush halacha that it is muttar to carry less than 4 amos in a reshus harabim (measured with your own 4 amos). And it is talking about exactly cases like this–that you are allowed to sit and eat. And move things around within your reach.
So I went back out and ate, and felt like an ?? ????, and decided I really need to learn chelek daled.
A man is known by the company he keeps
According to many poskim the rule of chatzi shiur assur min hatorah does not apply to daled amos birshus harabim. Daled amos is not a shiur of issur, but rather the definition of mekomo. If you move less than 4 amos, you have not moved it out of mekomo, so there is no issur.
If you are relying on the tables being a teil birshus harabim, you’d also need to make sure that you lean over the table every time you put something in your mouth, including the cup for drinking which is very difficult. It would also place you in the position of being over a drabanan of al yaamod birshus harabim v’yishte birshus hayachid shema yotzi.
If yeynam is yayin nesech, then how were you yotze kiddush? Bishlama Friday night, you could’ve used the pas. But Shabbos morning? Unless it wasn’t a YCT crowd, just a hashgacha on the eiruv. But if they rely on YCT for eiruvin, how can you trust their food?
PBA: While I can’t disagree with you if you want to say all of those things because YCT isn’t frum, it’s still very hard to call their wine Stam Yeinum. Unless you want to claim that it’s not that they’re not frum, it’s just that they’re all Apikorsim. That’s also tough to say, especially about the Talmidim (though it’s very easy to say about certain members of the staff).
Midwesterner: It could have been grape juice or Mevushal.
I don’t think YCT isn’t frum.
PBA: Also, there is good reason to say that something carried in not an Eruv isn’t Ma’aseh Shabbos because there was no change in the Guf of the object. (I’m noting a tremendous irony here, by the way. V’ahmeivin Yavin.)
PBA: Not the irony I was noting. But I won’t state anything more explicit here. And I think L’ma’aseh many say that Hotza’ah is Ma’aseh Shabbos. It’s a good Shaila in Lomdus though and there should be what to be Meikil on in a tremendous Sha’as Had’chak.
Sam2 – Does your irony has anything to do with defining melachos as creative?
Yitay: No, PBA got it. And even more than that, because a few of the YCT guys (some of whom are actually Frum) are some of the biggest anti-Chabad out there.
Oh.
Did you speak to the Shliach? Perhaps he checked out the Eiruv on hos own, or he has his own Eiruv there.
What do you mean by ‘outside’? You say it was a Reshus Hayachis.
The tables have a problem of Gediim Bok’im Tachtav. I thought the Tal is only mentioned LeIssur. Where is it mentioned as a Hetter?
If you’re in a reshus hayachid, what exactly is the problem?
PBA: That would be a Carmelis (unless it slopes far enough downwards, in which case things could get interesting).
It’s a reshus hayachid in nezikin. In eruvin it’s some funky kind of a carm’lis. I was going to a shiur in the first perek of shabbos aliba d’hilchisa then college got in the way so I don’t know what to call it.
Well, if it’s a driveway then it is closed on three sides. That is a Reshus Hayachid Mide’oraysa. It is a Mavoy, and Miderabanan it needs a Tikkun. Although a Lechi should be enough, the Poskim require a Tzuras Hapesach.
HaLeivi: In brooklyn we’re used to thinking of a driveway as a long narrow path enclosed on three sides. In places where there’s enough room to have landscapes and architecture that is not necessarily the case. Lots of large houses have round driveways so you can pull up at the front door and there is a yard in the center of the circle.
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