Post-debate fallout- question for Democratic voters

Home Forums Decaffeinated Coffee Post-debate fallout- question for Democratic voters

Viewing 29 posts - 1 through 29 (of 29 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #2293606
    LerntminTayrah
    Participant

    The media consensus from all but the most partisan Democrats is that last night’s debate was awful for Biden and he should step aside. He had to show he was still mentally sharp enough to run the country, and he didn’t do that. Trump was Trump, meaning he spews lies but coherently. This debate was a referendum on Biden’s mental health, and he lost it.
    Question for those here who vote Democrat: Do you prefer to stick with Biden or should he be replaced? If you replace him, who should he be replaced with?
    My Daas Torah says vote Republican, though they don’t think highly of Trump. So I can’t objectively think about what the Democrats should do here. So I’m asking you.
    (This thread is not meant to devolve into “But Trump! But Biden/Democrats!” It’s just a question on this huge moment in political history that will be long-remembered. How do you solve it if you like Democrats and Biden?)

    #2293843

    This is a tricky situation for Dems. First, someone needs to convince the President to step aside,

    Second, like meraglim who say “let’s have a new leader” – they do not have one leader. B carefully calibrates between all 10 wings of the D party, and he is still fretting about a group of Arabs in Michigan. Everyone coming fresh will surely eliminate someone in the D coalition and lose the key states.

    Third, if B steps away from the election, then the immediate question would be – why is he still a President if his party has no confidence in him. That will make Kamala the face of US gov for a couple of months, surely not something helpful in a election.

    #2293997
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    I clearly understood that Joe Biden was senile,
    I clearly understood that FOUR YEARS AGO.

    Why did the world just recently come to understand,
    what I understood FOUR YEARS AGO?

    #2294001

    The time for Biden to drop out was last year. If he drops out now, he has no clear successor and no chance for primary elections to produce a clear successor to his candidacy, so anyone who is nominated at the convention will struggle to be seen as legitimate. Kamala, as the VP, probably has the best claim to legitimacy, but she’s seen as weak and unpopular and probably doesn’t have enough time to change that before the election even if she knew how to. So the Dems at this point appear to have nothing but an array of bad options to choose from.

    #2294006
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @OP
    Let me quote something that a certain person posted in the CR

    “There is no Biden and there is no Trump. There is no Democratic Party and there is no Republican Party. Hashem runs the world. Biden and Trump are both illusions of the hester panim. Vote the way your daas torah tells you to, but don’t get so wrapped up in politics as it’s all fake.”

    Sounds familar?

    #2294063
    skripka
    Participant

    Gretchen Whitmer would be a safe consensus, and would be able to be a good face for what is the Democrat’s strongest weapon against the GOP – Abortion.

    Gavin Newsom is popular, is articulate, and -even though it shouldn’t matter- he has the Bill Clinton and Barack Obama charisma.

    Joe Biden would still be president even if he wasn’t running. He’d be stepping down as CANDIDATE, not President.

    #2294169
    LerntminTayrah
    Participant

    Maskim there is no Biden and no Trump. they are illusions. they are the stick hitting the dog. The stupid dog goes after the satick instead of realizing Who is holding the stick.
    Fundestvegn there is a chiyuv hishtadlus to vote. But don’t get wrapped up in politics, it’s a waste of time .
    Still, this is an interesting conundrum- stick with a senile person to beat Trump or try an unknown.

    #2294180

    skripka, you can’t hack your way to a win just through the babies. You need to add some less sympathetic enemies to arose enough support from the populum.

    but here is your conundrum:
    if he is stepping down as CANDIDATE because everyone agrees that he is incoherent,
    what is his rationale for staying in as a PRESIDENT?

    He can’t just say “I want to spend more time with my family” because he is spending most of his time chatting with his family as it is.

    #2294770
    skripka
    Participant

    @AAQ His rationale would be that campaigning is not for him, and that although he can still be president, campaigning requires a certain charisma and false exuberance that he can’t promise to be able to display.

    And you definitely can ride abortion to victory, the Dems did it in 2022

    #2294973

    skripka, telling people that you can run the country but the elections is not a winning proposition with non-partisans.

    Abortions might be effective during midterms when the voting rate is very low and increasing partisan rage gives you an advantage. Not so in Presidential elections, when middle of the road voters matter more.

    #2296033
    Ex-CTLawyer
    Participant

    @skripka

    Your named suggestions are interesting but create a huge problem for the Democrat Party (Disclosure: I have been a delegate to the national convention many times).

    The heiress apparent (whom I do not support) is Kamala Harris.
    The party cannot push her aside for a white male or female candidate without losing what is left of the Black support for the party. They would sit the election out and the candidate chosen would lose

    #2296259

    This “black support” thing is really a mental aberration, and a racist at that. Neither Barrack nor Kamala are descendants of slaves in America. They are both in part high-privileged (white or Brahmin, with a touch of slave owners), and part African, unrelated to US. How do they redeem any slavery sins of America, real or imagined? The only legit salve descendent who lives in the WH was Michelle, but she did not like it.

    #2296261
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Xct, (do you mind if I call you that for short?

    What about Jeffries? If the democrats were to win the house he would be third in line anyways

    #2296372
    Lostspark
    Participant

    Anyone who doesn’t support Biden is a Russian sympathizer just like in 2016. There should be another investigation obviously many democrats are complicit in supporting Russian propaganda.

    #2296414
    Ex-CTLawyer
    Participant

    @Coffee
    There is little or no support for Jeffries. In general members of the House are not nominated for President

    #2296416
    Ex-CTLawyer
    Participant

    @AAQ
    Black support is a real thing, it does not matter that Obama was half white and Harris half Indian.
    They sell in the urban ghettos and Black churches. I have seen the voters whipped up by the cleverly and the grassroots get out the vote effort.

    The descendants of slaves idea is one only considered by the elite, not the masses

    #2296642
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz of Yated Ne’eman said:

    “The media and his fellow politicians have been hiding the president’s condition from the American people.
    His administration governed following a leftist agenda, embedding it deeply into American governance, culture, and society.
    Expressing the truth about the president and his abilities risked the return of Donald Trump and his traditionalism and America First agenda.

    Journalism today is less about objective reporting and more about framing occurrences to advance agendas and objectives.
    So, when there were clips of the president demonstrably weakened, saying silly things, or speaking gibberish and displaying that he was in decline, the right-wing media reported on them while the prevailing mainstream media, whose objective is to advance social progressivism, ignored them.

    Biden was kept hidden from the general population. Sometimes they would trot him out to read speeches or comments from cards or a teleprompter, but he would rarely interface with people for long and didn’t engage in small talk. Invariably, when he did, he would say something foolish, wrong, or incomprehensible.

    He would meet with leaders and dignitaries and read his comments from cards. It was poor form for foreign leaders to tell anyone that the president wasn’t with it. At summits, everyone would play along and cover for the American president. Liberalism was enabled to govern and lead the country and the world.

    Generally, the gambit worked, and when the media and Democrat politicians were unable to ignore the instances, they blamed them on the right and said that the right-wing media was dishonestly editing clips to portray a healthy, sharp, vigorous president as incoherent and weak.

    But the campaign messed up. They believed their own narratives about Donald Trump and assumed that, in an early debate, he would expose himself to the world for the madman they told everyone he is. The country would see that he is insane and wants to be a dictator. They would be rid of him once and for all.

    But the tables were turned, and even after a full week of rest and preparation, their candidate could not perform.
    He spoke in incomplete sentences, was unclear and unfocused, and at times made absolutely no sense at all.
    There was no way to sugarcoat what 50 million people saw with their own eyes in real time.
    So instead of Trump being exposed, Biden was. And the jig was up.

    Once they realized that, everyone who had been covering for Biden ran for cover.
    Then they made it seem as if they were surprised.
    They knew that if permitted to run for reelection as their candidate,
    Biden would lose, and the liberal enterprise they had going would implode.
    With little choice, they began sacrificing their man and playing up the incompetent woman he had chosen to serve as his vice president, hoping that they would be able to do for her what they did for him and convince the low-information voters to vote for her and then carry her over the finish line.

    They say that their campaign is all about democracy, yet here they go and seek to upend the results of a primary in which Democrat voters across this country voted that Mr. Biden should be the Democrat nominee for president. However, because they fear that he will lose, they are now preparing to do something that was never done before and simply disgorge the democratically chosen candidate for president.
    Then they tell us that they are the ones fighting for democracy and Trump is the dictator.
    The media is gleefully formulating and driving this instead of simply reporting what others are saying and doing.”

    SOURCE: On Logic by Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz, 2024 July 10, www (dot) yated (dot) com

    #2297287

    ExCTL > The descendants of slaves idea is one only considered by the elite, not the masses

    So, you are saying masses are plain racist? It could be, but more likely simply emotional and following the flow.

    As an example, gallup has a “poll” about “immigration” – scary quotes because they do not use “illegal” in most questions, conflating legal and illegal immigration, while clearly referring to illegal in other questions, like “closing the border” . So they have these 2 questions, approximately:

    1. would you give citizenship for the immigrants who are already in the country if they follow certain (undefined) conditions – yes 80%
    2. would you agree to immediately deport everyone who is currently in the country illegally. yes 40%

    So, at least 20% answered yes to both questions, although these answers are incompatible. Well, maybe they just want any resolution, just want to debate to end?!

    #2297207
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I believe in small government. How can a government get smaller than if all the people in it are shrinking? Let’s replace all of Congress with dementia patients.

    #2297337
    Ex-CTLawyer
    Participant

    @AAQ
    I am not saying the masses are racist (I don’t apply that word broadly). I am saying that groups have ethnic and other preferences and extend them to voting.

    Being honest:
    We like to live amongst our own kind
    We vote for Jewish candidates
    We look for and use Jewish professionals (medical, legal, accounting, etc.)
    We shop at Jewish owned businesses.

    Does this make us racist? Not unless we refuse to do any of these things because the person is not of our own kind.

    #2297382
    yechiell
    Participant

    why only speak about his performance at the debate?
    how about how well he did at the newsconference he led a few days later. he did EXTREMELY WELL at that news conference. Ignoring that, eh? you trumpers make me sick. and i’m a republican. you couldn’t elect chris christie or nikki halley or anyone else? you picked a convicted felon, who, were it anyone else, without all those lawyers, would now be rotting in jail.
    oy.

    #2297524
    GadolHadofi
    Participant

    yechiyell,

    I have a feeling you already know this but all the debate did was confirm to the entire country that Brandon has always been an incompetent, incontinent demented failure who ruined everything he even looked at. His drug-pushing doctors, Hamas-loving handlers, lying spokespeople and fawning media are no longer a sufficient fig leaf to cover the fact that this late stage Alzheimer’s patient should have been institutionalized years ago.

    Instead of pretending to be a Republican and getting all deranged about their nominee, you might accomplish more by convincing your bankrupt democrat politburo to find someone with a brain cell to replace this useless turd.

    #2297532
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    You mean the news conference that he had a list of reporters that he allowed them to ask questions and he called Trump his VP?

    Even CNBC was making fun of him for THAT!

    #2297590
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Gadolhadofi,

    I’m not sure he can find one with a brain cell, except for maybe Fetterman

    #2297686

    EXCTL>Being honest:
    We like to live amongst our own kind
    We vote for Jewish candidates
    We look for and use Jewish professionals (medical, legal, accounting, etc.)
    We shop at Jewish owned businesses.

    Does this make us racist?

    On one hand, I agree with you. At the same time, I skipped voting for a Jewish VP candidate despite respecting him … another relative of mine used to avoid meeting that candidate’s mother for years, as she was always asking whether he voted for her son …

    I am not the only one trying to vote for the good of the country. USA is doing somewhat better than other countries avoiding narrow voting for personal interest. For example, dem strategists are complaining for years that Americans are voting down “death taxes” despite 99% of them “benefiting” from such re-distribution…

    #2297697

    yechiel > he did EXTREMELY WELL at that news conference. Ignoring that, eh?

    At the first glance, I thought this was sarcasm and double-checked whether I was the one who wrote it. I actually watched this conference to do my own diagnosis. Even at 2x speed, President’s thinking was painstakingly slow. I felt bad for the old man embarrassing himself. Someone @ WSJ tried to defend Pres B by describing how Reagan was deteriorating during last year. This op-ed has about 2,000 comments all saying the same thing: Reagan stepped down from the high level, Biden is sliding from the unremarkable level he was when he was younger.

    Also, NYT headline writers are off their rockers. Latest one: Dems push Biden to xxxx – Last thing a stumbling old man needs is a push!

    #2297699
    Ex-CTLawyer
    Participant

    AAQ

    You could not have voted for a Vice Presidential candidate if you wanted.
    Only the Presidential Candidate appears on the ballot and is voted for. The VP choice of the party gets a free ride with the winning Presidential candidate.

    No voter was able to cast a vote for that person since the VP position had no place in the ballot.

    I still am an Asst. Registrar of Voters and know election laws and procedures

    #2297784
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    When you’re going to do tokenism, does it matter if your token is authentic?

    #2298005

    Ex-CTL, I am not a lawyer or an ex-lawyer, so I am allowed to be imprecise. I did not punched a chad near a name of a kosher candidate.

Viewing 29 posts - 1 through 29 (of 29 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.