- This topic has 21 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 5 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Does anyone have a credible source for this practice?
there is many creditable sources for this cant pin point but it is brought down in seforim but u have to make sure u r going to sb who is crediable and r doing it thru torah veiw point and not thru forchun tell or st like that
if u read jewish history story books it mentions it alot the women used to do it in the house and it happened a couple of times were a guyish worker/maid walked in on her and reported her and she was punished for doing witch craft
actually there are credible people who do it and its not kishuf. i know theres an alte bubbitchka in meah shearim who does it, and i once spoke to someone whos a bukki in these things and he told me its very real. i know i havent brought one single legit source, but all im saying is its not kishuf. neither is chochmas hapartzuf etc.
I’ll bet Popa has a non-cedible source
My parents once had an a”h and so she went 2 a lady near me that shes friends with that new how to take away a”h’s and she did the led thing with the hot water and it shaped into a person and it removed the a”h bh!!
I am sure those who do it have no idea of its source, and it could just be a coincidence that it is done by others for the wrong reasons.
I know a very reliable rov who has some strange way of counteracting the ayin horo that seems to clearly have pagan origins. He doesn’t know that because it was handed down to him over the generations, he doesn’t charge for it, and it is in the geder of people believe it works so it does. I would not ask him to do whatever he does for me, but I would not tell anyone who asks me about him to avoid this if he offers it.
What exactly is done? Do you just pour it on the ground? Do you chant any posuk or pizmon?
Never heard of this, but until any explanation with ceredible mekor for this, I think I’ll just stick to the roiteh bendel
metrodriver-if you go to a kook doctor once that doesnt mean no-one can have a real degree in medicine. there are people who are real.but youre right in that most people are looking to make a buck.
old man- dont you think thats a bit broad. what if R chaim kanievsky would do it? would it still be nonesense? so that means it can be real, you just dont like it. care to explain?
He holds like the Rambam
BaalHabooze said: “Never heard of this, but until any explanation with ceredible (sic) mekor for this, I think I’ll just stick to the roiteh bendel”
The apparent implication of your above statement is that there is a credible mekor for using a “roite bindele.” That is half-true. There is a credible mekor which mentions its use, but not in a positive light; the Tosefta in Shabbos 7:1 says that tying a red string around the wrist to ward off ayin hara is prohibited because of darkei Emori.
old man said: “Exotic practices such as these are nonsense, whether they have a “mekor” or not. Defining it as darkei emori, kishuf, etc… is irrelevant. It’s plain nonsense.”
I disagree. If it has a reliable mekor, then it’s not nonsense. If tefillin didn’t have a reliable mekor, it WOULD be nonsense. What is or isn’t nonsense depends on what the Torah says, and whether something has a mekor or not is certainly not “irrelevant.”
Here is a credible source for ble ghissen:
The following practices and traditions are associated with the beginning of the new year in German-speaking countries:
Compare to this article from hamodia:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/769/scan0008gifpw3.png
On the other hand, check out tzemach tzedek 38:
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1609&st=&pgnum=104&hilite=
The German Christians have the custom of pouring lead and divining futures, also known as blee Gheesen.
it IS brought down by the Tzemach tzedek in OC siman 38, but it’s hard to ignore the obvious German Christian source.
its real and its all kabbala and if a big problem to be. the person its done to it works for but all the ayin hara goes to the person doing it. ive seen it done the lead turns into eyes and swords weird stuff, its real kabbala stuff there are pesukim you say while you do it but most people who do it should not be doing it.
I know that the legitimate ones that do “Up Shperchin” are yerushalmi women who have been taught the proper way by
great-great- grandmother passed down mother to daughter, for many generations. There was a famous name whom was known and popular in yerushalayim, I know ehliche people who sent their children to this particular family (woman) but that was over almost 50 years ago, it was a known by practice by the yershalmi’s and if it was any issur of imitating the goyim it would’ve been Assured way back and wouldnt of made it this far.
Though most people who do it today, who cannot trace it back many generations in their family..you must know, like most mekubalim today….(ahem!)
Also most practices the goyim actually took from us, just as most
of christianity, muslims, took their monotheism, customs, (warped versions) and concepts from us.
I heard the tzemach tzedek has a teshuva that it can be done on shabbos for a choleh Mesukan (pikuach nefesh) for it is baduk Umenusa that it helps.
(I can’t verify the that this teshuvha legitimately exists.)
Bein Hasedorim, the teshuva of the Tzemach Tzedek is Orach Chaim 38.
The goyim stole anything half descent they have, from us. Of course they twisted almost all of it to make it almost unrecognizable.
Did anyone actually read the Tzemach Tzedek in question? He writes he heard about this refuah, and calls it a refuah she’eina badukah. IE, he has no clue about it, and allows it due to lack of more information. If he knew its source he wouldn’t allow it at all.
(unless you believe the Tzemach Tzedek is the nasi hador and is infallible, but that’s for another thread).
In response to three questions that I was asked:
1. no difference
2. yes
3. self-explanatory
Thanks Jothar! I heard the opposite, it was used as a haskama.
It’s good to know the truth. I’m Bl’n gonna look it up tonight.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.