President and the Coronavirus

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  • #1906504
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The lack of importance in masks wearing and social distancing has caught up with him.
    See https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1906411/breaking-president-trump-and-first-lady-melania-test-positive-for-covid-19.html

    #1906552
    huju
    Participant

    Well, at least this has pushed his tax returns and financial problems off the front page.

    #1906589
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer: Combine his age, morbid obesity and predisposition to contradict medical experts, don’t be surprised if we soon see one of his right wing evangelical galachs arriving at the White House to perform a viral exorcism while showering everyone with chlorox and zinc.

    Poor taste

    #1906592
    Health
    Participant

    GH -“Combine his age, morbid obesity and predisposition to contradict medical experts,…”

    In spite of your Not nice comment, he can now show the World that Zinc + HCQ works for Covid 19.
    I hope he can find s/o to prescribe it to him. I’m Sure Fauci Won’t!

    #1906593
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Mod: Probably so, but with all respect to the “Office” of the presidency, there are literally hundreds of thousands of Americans who have been put at risk by the actions of the incumbent. Per my comment on another thread, I wish that he, the First lady and all of his Staff infected have a refuah shelamah but I cannot have any expectation that his actions will now suddenly shift towards setting an example for millions of his followers who have disregarded the guidance of public health and medical experts, whether it be masks, social distancing or therapeutics. Rather, I fear he will cite his quick recovery and mild symptoms as affirmation of his reckless behavior.

    #1906600
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    GH- i ask forgiveness in advance, i usually refrain but i can’t take it anymore. And i say this with all the love i can muster for my fellow poster.
    You are seriously delusional

    #1906610
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Syag: I grant you mechilah and I share your warm feelings for other posters who candidly express contrarian views. However, I have no apologies for the contempt I hold for the way the President and this administration have put the country at risk by their reckless approach to the virus. If that “delusional”, so be it.

    #1906804
    1
    Participant

    GH when the president wanted to close the borders at the beginning of the outbreak your democrat leaders said it’s xenophobic. De Blasio and pelosi said it was ok to go to restaurants.

    #1906820
    Health
    Participant

    GH -“there are literally hundreds of thousands of Americans who have been put at risk by the actions of the incumbent.”

    What do you care? You and all Libs don’t do anything he does.
    So if everyone from the right wing follows him – the country will be just Leftists!

    #1906873
    Baal Teshuvah
    Participant

    Syag – And to say such a thing on Erev Yom Tov!

    #1906874
    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    GH, you’ve displayed an steadfast, unrelenting hatred for the President for the past four years, starting with the disrespectful name that you use.
    You seem to have no concept of our Federal system of government when you ascribe responsibility to the President for all or most of the 200,000+ deaths. The states and localities have a major role. Trump provided a Navy hospital ship and had the Corps of Engineers construct a hospital in the Javits Center. However, they sat empty as Governor Cuomo chose instead to force nursing homes to take in Covid patients. It took over 10,000 deaths and 6 weeks for Cuomo to rescind his order.
    You seem to have perfect 20/20 hindsight and selected forgetfulness. The Democrats and you claim that Trump did nothing until March. However, in January Trump instituted his travel ban and in February established his commission to run the process and began to ramp up production of masks, ventilators and testing. What were the Democrats doing? Calling Trump xenophobic ( Biden ) , inviting people to visit Chinatown ( Pelosi ) and restaurants ( DiBlasio ) and doing nothing until mid March ( Cuomo ).
    Did Trump make mistakes? Of course, everyone did. Did the press take comments out of context ( i.e. claim he wanted to inject Clorox) ? Also of course. Did the CDC and Dr Fauci flip flop on masks? Yes.
    GH, what is the major difference between people like myself and Syag and yourself ? It’s the ability to recognize the shades of grey in the actions of our political and medical leaders. We are able to acknowledge his faults as well as his accomplishments. You, and others like you, seem incapable of putting your hatred of Trump aside and consider his positives or Biden’s and the Democrat’s negatives. Could Trump have expressed himself in the past more clearly? Yes, but he is clearly not a racist if you judge him by his actions

    #1906876
    huju
    Participant

    To Health: The president said (which does not make it true) that he followed a course of HCQ and zinc treatment a few months ago. How did it work out?

    In light of your belief in HCQ and zinc, would it be wrong for me, a Biden voter, to encourage all prospective Trump voters to take HCQ and zinc, with the hope that they will be unable to vote in November?

    #1906949
    Pekak
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer

    Please open your own blog and stop opening new anti Trump threads. We know you don’t like him.

    Thank you,

    Klal Yisroel

    #1906952
    Health
    Participant

    huju -“To Health: The president said (which does not make it true) that he followed a course of HCQ and zinc treatment a few months ago. How did it work out?”

    Btw, how many SN’s do have? Is Ubiq one of them?
    If you claim to be a doc, you only take HCQ + Zinc when you are symptomatic.
    He just got Covid19. The PC from the “So-called” Medical team doesn’t believe in this Tx.
    He should have done it anyways.

    #1906955
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Pekak, I did not know that you are Klal Yisroel. Maybe your name of gaiva reflects it.

    #1906954
    jackk
    Participant

    The Biden supporters have a hard time showing more concern for Trump than he has shown for other people.
    It makes sense to us that since Trump shows no consideration or respect to many others that he does not deserve it in return.
    I can list 200,000 of them in the past 6 months. But it started from before he was elected. (ie Ted Cruz)

    It is not that we do not realize that he has done good things, but we realize that he has hurt many people without any conscience.

    Wasn’t it hard in school to feel bad for the class bully when he got hurt?

    I totally disagree with the assessment that the President and the Federal government bear no responsibility in Americans dying during a pandemic.
    What is your feeling on Trump infecting his aids and the Secret Service members who are obligated to protect him? Or holding a rally that killed Herman Caine?

    #1906961
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I am not sure why i feel the urge to slam my head into a brick wall but here goes…

    Jackk- you are welcome to your propaganda party lines as is anyone else, but do you realize how infantile you sound when you blame Caine’s death on trump because he held the rally that Caine attended? You sound exactly like a 10 year old when he blames rebbe for him punching a kid who made fun of him for his low test score.

    Unless trump handcuffed caine and brought him to the rally before anyone knew covid was contagious, It wasn’t his doing!!!!! Unless of course you believe caine was cognitively impaired and couldn’t make his own decisions. Oh, wait, maybe he’s blind and thought he was being forcefully driven to an empty room but it ended up being a rally during a pandemic that he hadn’t heard about.

    Calling it grasping at straws is too generous. It’s nuts. But carry on, i know you’re doing auto pilot.

    <<removes helmet>>

    #1906969
    jackk
    Participant

    Syag,

    You are agreeing that Caine got it from the rally but Trump who held the rally is not responsible at all ? WOW. WHY DID TRUMP MAKE EVERYONE WHO ATTENDS HIS RALLIES SIGN A WAIVER THAT THEY WILL NOT SUE HIM ?
    BECAUSE HE IS 100% LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE! And morally also!

    There is always a tweet when I need it. This is a tweet from today.

    “I will be leaving the great Walter Reed Medical Center today at 6:30 P.M. Feeling really good! Don’t be afraid of Covid. Don’t let it dominate your life. We have developed, under the Trump Administration, some really great drugs & knowledge. I feel better than I did 20 years ago!”

    How many people will act carelessly and die from this one tweet ?
    I am talking from experience.
    I know many orphans and widows that are personally suffering due to covid.
    I know many healthy people that suffered and are still suffering greatly due to covid.

    I know many Great Jewish Leaders – Rabbonim, Rosh Yeshivas, Rebbes – that have completely changed their lives and the lives of their followers due to covid.
    Unless you have been living in a cave for the past 7 months , you know exactly what I am talking about.

    The only one who is doing the exact opposite of what is needed is DJT.

    It is ironic that in a post about how Trump shows no respect for others you also show a lack of respect for me and my opinions. It is the midos trickle down theory.

    #1906978
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Oh jackk, you are really just too much. I didn’t write a post about trump having no respect, i wrote a post about how honesty and integrity seem to suffer from deep twists and turns when anti trumpers speak.

    And me not respecting you? Cute.

    #1906987
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    I also find it absurd that now-a-days it seems that the left has taken the position that masks are the salvation of human kind they and only they stand between us and doom.

    Yet in the beginning when Dr. Fauci knew the virus was airborne and had in fact advised the President as such he was aggressive against people wearing masks.

    If masks are what saves lives is he not then directly responsible for tens of thousands of deaths?

    #1906999
    se2015
    Participant

    “If masks are what saves lives is [Fauci] not then directly responsible for tens of thousands of deaths?”

    If he knowingly downplayed masks to win an election or to improve his public image or some other selfish reason, the answer is clearly yes.

    If he downplayed masks because presymptomatic and asymptomatic transmission was not understood (as I think he has explained), then no. Remember we were and still are learning about the virus.

    If he knowingly downplayed masks because there was a shortage of PPE and he wanted to minimize PPE hoarding so doctors and nurses could get it, then it gets morally ambiguous. I don’t think it would be accurate to say he’s responsible for tens of thousands of death, because the justification is that by allowing PPE to flow to hospitals he saved more lives; on the other hand, it is in a sense playing god. Whether you would agree it was the correct moral decision, I don’t think you can say unequivocally that he was directly responsible for those deaths.

    Aside for the hypotheticals about what he knew and why health officials did not recommend wearing masks at the time, how many people asking this question would have worn masks at the time? How many wear them now?

    Let’s turn the question around. If we take it as fact that masks do save lives, and if someone does not wear a mask and infects someone and causes their death, is that person not responsible for the death? Of course, no one can prove in any given situation which person caused the infection or if a mask would have helped, so we’re not going to convene a beis din and make a capital case out of this. However, that person should at least wake up to the sofeik that they may infect and kill someone.

    Secondly, from a community wide perspective, health officials say it is a vadai that people will get sick if the community does not adhere to masks and social distancing. If you’re not convinced, look around. So while we can’t say with certainty that one particular person is responsible for someone else’s death, we can say the community is responsible for the deaths in the community. And if you’re not convinced it’s a vadai, then it’s at worst a sofeik and people should act at least as stringently as they would act if there was a sofeik chillul shabbos deoraysa. If you want to argue it’s not even a sofeik, I’m all ears. My phone is lighting up with tehillim names; we all know people who are critically ill, and some of us know people who have died in the last few weeks.

    I’d like to hear the argument that it is a mere coincidence that neighborhoods next to frum neighborhoods that were better about masks and social distancing are not seeing the same spikes. If anything, based on the logic prevailing in mid-June that the frum world has antibodies and herd immunity, those neighborhoods should see more cases, not fewer.

    #1907002
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    When Dr. Fauci said not to use masks because there was a shortage, so it was required by the medical staff.

    #1906973
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    AnonymousJEw
    Plus one on your comment.

    I would add that comparing Donald Trump to a “Class bully” is laughable.

    A class bully is one who does not simply talk against people, rather he directly hurts others.

    The President has done the opposite. While he may be a tad willful in tweeting he has actually benefited people.

    He is the first President to decades to make real progress towards peace in the Middle East, saving thousands of lives.

    He is the first President in decades to actually work towards implementing trade policies that allow hundreds of thousands of Americans to actually support their families.

    He actually implemented Criminal Justice reform to allow thousands of people a second chance at life.

    And he actually tried to save lives by this pandemic by actually banning travel from China & Europe (overruling Doctors who later acknowledged he was correct) He actually ramped up production so that even Coumo & Newsom acknowledged his teams work.

    While Newsom has overseen policies that have devastated California & Coumo implemented policies that actually killed thousands of human beings.

    #1907071
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    So Donald Trump is criticized for not urging people to wear masks at the exact same time that Dr. Fauci was publicly urging people not to wear masks?

    So the criticism of Trump is that he should have warned people not to listen to Fauci?

    I am just trying to understand.

    #1907271
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Ben Levi, Trump, now that masks are available, continues to be against its wearing, whereas Dr. Fauci, wanted to save them for the medicak staff.

    #1907460
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Actually Trump Stated over and over again he is pro wearing masks when appropriate.

    During the debate he not only stated it he took a mask out of his pocket to show that he carries one.

    He is not pro wearing one just for show.

    But who is Trump to let the fact get in the way of what you want his opinion to be?

    #1907724
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Trump’s actions and behavior reflect his beliefs and intentions. He told a reporter to remove the mask. He made fun of Biden for wearng a mask. He removed his mask when entering the WH. Having a mask in his pocket does not protect him.

    #1907815
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer,
    He asked a reported to remove a mask when he was Socially distant from everyone and was asking a question from far away.

    There was zero reason for the reporter to be wearing one.

    And the White House is where he lives.

    You are proving his point that yes when medically it makes sense he wears them.

    Not for political theater.

    #1907854
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Ben Levi: Have you ever been to the WH press room downstairs where this incident occurred?? Its part of the standard tour in case you ever get to D.C. It is literally an oversized closet with terrible ventilation. Even with the new social distancing rules and empty seats imposed by the WHCA, reporters are literally on top of one another. The WH almost always has “guests” standing around the periphery of the room (aka OAN “reporter” etc> Plus, the WH press secretary, 3 of her staff and several other Trumpkins have tested positive which shows how carefully they have been taking the mask and distancing guidelines.. The reporters take the rapid tests with high false negative rates (up to 30 percent). I you were a reporter, even before the Trumpkopf got himself sick, you would be crazy not to wear a mask in that venue, even if the Trumpkopf wanted to display his macho by telling you to take it off. Anyone who thinks he takes masks seriously is halucinating.

    #1907862
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “he reporters take the rapid tests with high false negative rates (up to 30 percent).”

    An old addage of mine, if you have to fake the stats to make your point you probably know you’re wrong.

    #1907870
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    I actually watched the entire clip of that exchange.

    There was no one within 6 feet.

    Trump simply asked for the common courtesy of the reporter taking off the mask while asking the question.

    If reporters can take off the mask several minutes after the Press Conference is over, provided they think the video camera is not rolling ( there are several clip circulating showing just that) it seems reasonable they can do it while asking a question of the President with no one around them.

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