January 16, 2011 11:54 pm at 11:54 pm #594247
The previous thread has been closed. Here is some fresh, un-discussed info:
Steven Z. Mostofsky is a solo family law attorney, president of the National Council of Young Israel was just interviewed by the NY Law Journal. He was asked, and answered.
Q: Based on your 15 years of experience as a solo family law attorney, what would you say is the top reason for divorce in the Orthodox community? Is that any different than for non-Orthodox?
A: Interference by in-laws, especially when couples marry at a young age. I was quite surprised to hear a radio report recently which listed in-laws as the number two reason for all divorces.January 17, 2011 12:10 am at 12:10 am #730057January 17, 2011 12:43 am at 12:43 am #730058memoMember
Is living away from your parents and in-laws a better way for a stronger/healthier marriage?January 17, 2011 1:03 am at 1:03 am #730059January 17, 2011 1:51 am at 1:51 am #730060eclipseMember
Oh brother…this must be a kosher topic cause it’s been chewed and spat out again and again…January 17, 2011 2:29 am at 2:29 am #730061Bed-StuyParticipant
Hit a sore spot?January 17, 2011 2:34 am at 2:34 am #730062eclipseMember
No,b”h.Just wondering about the repetition.January 17, 2011 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #730064cantoresqMember
People, you all ignore the obvious. The primary cause for divorce, indeed the cause for ALL divorces is. . .marriage. Were people to not marry, there would be no divorce.January 17, 2011 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #730065aries2756Participant
Maybe because each partner is waiting for the other to do the work and be the bigger “man”.January 17, 2011 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #730066
are all saying/have said this as a DEFINITE!, not a maybe. Oh yeah, and they all have had years and years of experience totaling thousands of casesJanuary 18, 2011 3:05 am at 3:05 am #730067
People should never interfere in other’s marriages! Statistics don’t mean much. In the other post, people cited many reasons for divorce. There is no practical reason to quote statistics in divorce. If a person says cardiovascular disease is the leading cause of death -there is a purpose for this statistic. Do things to prevent this disease. While trying to say the same here is ridiculous. The inference would be in-laws shouldn’t get involved in people’s marriages. While to some degree this is true, it should be applicable to everyone, not just in-laws. If there is abuse, then family or friends should get involved. If there is marital strife, marriage counsellors or a Rav with this type of experience should get involved. Just to make blanket statements, confuse people about marriage and even more so confuse people about the many facets of marital strife and ch’vs divorce!January 18, 2011 5:14 am at 5:14 am #730068oomisParticipant
People, you all ignore the obvious. The primary cause for divorce, indeed the cause for ALL divorces is. . .marriage”
HEEEEEYYYYY, that’s what I said in the last thread on the subject.January 18, 2011 6:04 am at 6:04 am #730069☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Yes, but you said you were joking. 🙂January 18, 2011 8:21 am at 8:21 am #730070
“The inference would be in-laws shouldn’t get involved in people’s marriages. While to some degree this is true, it should be applicable to everyone, not just in-laws.”
Knowing the cause helps in preventative measures. Seeking guidance from a Rov and/or marriage counselors is certainly important as soon as a problem arises or as soon as parents start mingling. Waiting for time to solve this problem wont work. With other problems, it may work.January 18, 2011 8:54 am at 8:54 am #730071bombmaniacParticipant
oh lets see…maybe its because the chosson and kallah dont know each other when they get married? especially by the chassidim where theyre sat at two ends of a table and have the marriage arranged…true you can get to know each other, but that doesnt always work.
maybe its because girls have such pressure to get married young, before they are actually mature enough to handle marriage,for fear of being labeled an old maid…
maybe its because a lot of people have a fantasy of what marriage should be which is out of touch with reality?
maybe its money issues? maybe the husband is a lazy bum, or the wife spends beyond their means?
maybe its because of some more “personal” issues?
maybe its because the husband or wife is abusive? (yes it can go both ways)
personally i dont think that “frum” divorces are any different from any other kind of divoce. marriagte is marriage…i dont see how it changes based on ideology or religion…January 18, 2011 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #730072flowersParticipant
A woman who gave birth to a baby with a problem told her doctor that it’s interesing that on her block several babies were recently born with problems. The doctor responded that what is interesting is how most babies are born healthy. A healthy baby is a miracle.
I think the same can be said about marriage. The fact that two people can be made to live together and most stay marriage forever, that is a miracle.
I would say that many marriages that end in divorced, even before the engagement, there wasn’t a big level of comfort in making the engagement to begin with.
Sure, there are divorces that happen because of interfences from the in-laws, however, just because people say that was the cause doesn’t mean that is the cause. Parents may encourage their child to leave a marriage simply because they see it’s bad for their child. Doesn’t mean the child isn’t thrilled to pieces to get divorced. All they need is that support from their parents.
We all make mistakes, and sometimes the marriage is a mistake because there is simply no compatibility.
Sometimes one partner is really an emotionally sick person, and no matter what the other partner does to make the marriage work, it won’t help.January 18, 2011 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #730073
Flower: making excuses for what the experts and common sense tell us is inexcusable behavior is just wrong. Do you argue with your doctor? Where was that parent before they got engaged? Once married let that all caring parent have a professional or a rov encourage the divorce.January 18, 2011 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #730075
Of course it should, but the point of the statistic is that- what is more important to concentrate on because you have a more liklihood of coming down with it.
“Knowing the cause helps in preventative measures”
That is exactly the point -there are many causes. You are clouding the issue by blaming only one cause which you claim others have insisted is the main cause.
And my point was -a person shouldn’t concentrate on just not having the in-laws or parents mingling, noone should get involved in people’s marriages, unless they are professionals. They can cause irreversible damage!January 18, 2011 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #730076bombmaniacParticipant
yeah…100 years ago you probably had a bunch of trash marriages with people too scared of stigma to get divorced…January 18, 2011 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #730077
A 100 years ago marriage was needed for survival. People worked longer hours outside and inside the house. There was no time to worry about the little things we do today.
My impression is that poor finances are a great contributor to a lack of peace in the house. My impression is that 100 years ago they had less and expected less. Therefore if they were married and poor, that didn’t bother them as much as it bothers us today. They had (almost) no expectations to meet.January 18, 2011 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #730078
MDG – Why do you think that people in our generation have got the attitude of “It Koompt Zey”, more than previous generations?January 18, 2011 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #730079
Adam yesh lo Manah, rotseh Ma’atayim
We are used to it, we expect it, and we are looking/dreaming for more.January 18, 2011 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #730080Bed-StuyParticipant
The way to rectify it is by lowering our expectations — considerably.January 18, 2011 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #730081ronrsrMember
A hundred years ago there was plenty of divorce and abandonment. Frequently it would take different forms. Husbands would leave for America and not send for their wives, or perhaps marry another woman in America. It’s not generally talked about much, and of course it didn’t happen to your great-grandmother or -grandfather.
Dowry-Farmers would go to a shtetl, marry a woman, collect her dowry, then move on to repeat the same in another locale, or just move to the New World.
There was also plenty of marital unhappiness then, too. But what era has ever been free of that?
There was great shame in divorce, but there still is today. I’m not sure anyone WANTS to get divorced.January 18, 2011 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #730082
“The way to rectify it is by lowering our expectations — considerably.”
I think that having more Emunah will be the answer. Know and appreciate that everything that you get – including spouse, money, children – is from Hashem. I know it’s easier said than done.January 19, 2011 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #730083flowersParticipant
“Flower: making excuses for what the experts and common sense tell us is inexcusable behavior is just wrong. Do you argue with your doctor? Where was that parent before they got engaged? Once married let that all caring parent have a professional or a rov encourage the divorce. “
Someone here said that the number 2 reason for divorce is in-law interference. My point was not always when the in-laws are interfering are they wrong. Many times they are right. And very often they do check with a rebbe or rav to make sure they are doing the right thing. It is sometimes very difficult for someone to just walk away from a bad marriage without the support of the parents, especially if it occurs when they are young. So in may be that real invalid in-law interferences may not be the second most common reason for divorce (though I know it can be a reason)January 19, 2011 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #730084
Flower: “So in may be that real invalid in-law interferences may not be the second most common reason for divorce”
Three very experienced experts claim its the PRIMARY cause.
You claim it may not be the second most common cause. Although we don’t know your credentials, you are indeed correct. Its the primary cause.
You wouldn’t happen to be one of those mingling mothers, would you?January 19, 2011 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #730085bein_hasdorimParticipant
“You wouldn’t happen to be one of those mingling mothers, would you?” LOL!!! (no offense flowers)
I just had to comment, there seems to be no reasonal explanation for people to defend this behavior of parent Meddling unless one is guilty of this practice.
Obviously we are not talking about a parent getting involved when there is an actual problem e.g. abuse verbally or physical,
not providing financial, emotional support, etc…
We are talking about typical parents who cannot accept the fact that their kids are all grown up & need to build their own family, making their own decisons even if it is contrary to their parents liking.
Some mothers merely feel that their daughters have been taken away from them so to speak by their son in law. Not validated by any wrong doing of said son in law. Simply that the daughter moved out and respects her husband, agrees with him over her mother is enough to send these mentally disturbed mothers over the edge. Vowing a vendetta of revenge and destruction to their marriage.
Some mothers simply dont like the way their SIL/DIL looks.
She feels that she isnt pretty enough for her son, for who the sun rises everyday (twice a day) or that her SIL isn’t such a polished gem that she can brag about to her friends.
But here’s the thing, It’s NOT your business who your sons or daughters find attractive it’s not your life,
It’s theirs, and you don’t get to make the decisions anymore.
Deal with it, take prozac, or just cont. meddling so you can mess up two wonderful peoples future, over your petty insecurities, or trying to hang on to the past, by ruining their present and future.
Most parents who meddle will tell you that they care too much. Don’t be fooled, these people are the most selfish people you can find.
Caring parents; please stay out of your childrens business and get your own life, unless there is a Serious issue, ask a rov (that’s not on your payroll) to confirm, don’t ruin what could be a true bayis ne’man based on your personal issues. Seek professional help.January 20, 2011 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #730086
bein_hasdorim: Thank you.
“Obviously we are not talking about a parent getting involved when there is an actual problem e.g. abuse verbally or physical,
not providing financial, emotional support, etc…”
I believe the experts are referring to these cases as well. How does an all caring parent know that’s the truth and its not a figment of their imagination. Was at a wedding where the kallahs mom scram at the chosson that he is a “control freak” on the way out for heading to a hotel (a Jewish one) the night of the chassuna. She wanted them to go to the basement next door she arraigned. So whos the “control freak”?
If a caring MIL/FIL sees a concern, they should bite their tongue and head right over to their rov or therapist to get advise on how to proceed. And if need be, get some counseling for THEMSELVES.January 20, 2011 4:27 pm at 4:27 pm #730087January 20, 2011 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #730088
Why do in-laws not let go?
An answer can be found in the Ramban’s commentary on the passuk in Beraisheet, where it says that a man shall leave his parents and cling to his wife. A son/daughter will cling to their other half, and the two halves make one unit together. They will cling to someone who is really part of them. In that respect, they are related to each other than their parents. That makes some parents rather unhappy.January 20, 2011 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #730090
Please be careful with what you write. The truth hurts 🙂
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