October 26, 2015 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #616545
Should the Gedolim ban processed meat along with tobacco?
“Eating processed meats like hot dogs, sausages or bacon can lead to bowel cancer in humans and red meat is a likely cause of the disease, World Health Organisation (WHO) experts said.
The review by the WHO’s International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), released on Monday, put processed meat in its group 1 list, which also includes tobacco and asbestos, for which there is “sufficient evidence” of cancer links.
Red meat was classified as probably carcinogenic in IARC’s group 2A list, to which it has also added this year glyphosate, the active ingredient in many weedkillers.
…”October 26, 2015 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #1110858zahavasdadParticipant
The Gedolim already banned BaconOctober 26, 2015 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #1110859
Wait long enough and they’ll come out and say it doesn’t. It’s happened before and likely will happen again.October 26, 2015 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #1110860
um, tobaco has been linked to bowel cancer too!
So lets start with tobacco (linked to bowel cancers, lung ancers, bladder cancer, tongue, esophagus, laryngeal, thyroid among many others. ) and then they can move on to banning processed meatOctober 26, 2015 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #1110861
Would it be suggestible to eat food said to be cancer inducing on the basis the evidence may potentially be later overturned?October 26, 2015 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #1110862☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Wait long enough and they’ll come out and say it doesn’t. It’s happened before and likely will happen again.
Good point. Pass me a cigarette, please.October 26, 2015 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm #1110863theprof1Participant
if all you eat is processed meats every day, like about a half lb of salami a day or 6 hot dogs, yeah you’ll get sick. but a reasonable amount, not likely.October 26, 2015 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #1110864
Let’s see: First eggs were no good, now they are good. They said to drink skim milk instead of whole milk, and now they say whole milk is good for you. Cigarettes aren’t food, but I would take any warning about the dangers food with a grain of salt since a differnt finding is likely to come. I have heard that the sample used to determine these findings are often flawed or so small that they should not be relied on as they are. Besides, would you trust anything that comes out the UN?October 26, 2015 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #1110865👑RebYidd23Participant
All meats must be processed before they are eaten.October 26, 2015 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #1110866akupermaParticipant
1. One should look at countries with a high rate of meat consumption and look to see if the population is dying off. It is especially interesting to note that in many countries, meat consumption correlates with affluence (i.e. the 1% types get lots of steak), and that in those countries, affluences also correlates with longer life.
2. Note that many of the environmentalists and “experts” are people who are vegetarians. Would you trust a frum Jew or a Muslim to discuss the health benefits of pork?October 26, 2015 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #1110867squeakParticipant
Credibility of the WHO is a factor, remember that this is the org that blew swine flu and sars waaay out of proportion. They publish or perish. So it should come as no surprise that the causation is not even close to proven in their study – it is at best loosely linked.
Don’t even begin to compare that to smoking, which has been proven beyond possible doubt and was conclusively demonstrated in the surgeon generals 1962 report.
The WHO should be condemned for its irresponsibility.October 26, 2015 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #1110868
One should look at countries with a high rate of meat consumption and look to see if the population is dying off.
Good point. I just looked at the statistics you reference. In fact, in all high meat consumption countries the reported death rate is at 100%.October 26, 2015 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #1110869👑RebYidd23Participant
lolOctober 27, 2015 12:46 am at 12:46 am #1110870One LinerMember
In third world countries where smoking is still acceptable far less people die of smoking related disease than of other causes.
(most of them don’t even live to die of smoking)October 27, 2015 1:26 am at 1:26 am #1110871
Joseph: Interesting you should suggest that gedolim should ban tobacco. I am always surprised to see how many rebbeim as well as their talmidim smoke.October 27, 2015 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1110872streekgeekParticipant
If only everyone would read the details of the study…
Who even eats more than 160 grams of meat every single day of their lives?
It’s true the same way that soy affects your reproduction system is true…November 4, 2015 9:16 pm at 9:16 pm #1110873
There is a great article in the Atlantic which explains why your OP is silly.
It is called “Beefing With the World Health Organization’s Cancer Warnings”November 4, 2015 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #1110874
Whaaat? You took my suggestion that the Gedolim consider banning the meat seriously? How silly of you! 😉 (The rest of the OP is verbatim from a news article.)November 4, 2015 11:58 pm at 11:58 pm #1110875
your opening line, indicates that like many news outlets you misunderstood the IARC.
In no way is processed meat as dangerous as tobacco. The only comparison is that both are now classified as “causing cancer” (along with alcohol, asbestos among others).
they did not comment on how much risk is associated w/ processed meat.
for example while 19% of all cancers are believed to be caused by tobacco, only 3% are believed to be caused by red meat (processed + unprocessed).
If no one in the UK smoked there would be 64,500 fewer cancers yearly, but only 8,800 fewer if no one ate processed or red meat.
Thus “Should the Gedolim ban processed meat along with tobacco?”
whther you meant it seriously or not, is simply silly.November 5, 2015 12:39 am at 12:39 am #1110876
If you took the opening line seriously then you can analyze it.November 5, 2015 2:55 am at 2:55 am #1110877yytzParticipant
The Gemara already suggests to only eat meat once a week (Chulin 84a). Some rabbis still advocate that (like R’ Lazer Brody). If people did that, then even if it was processed it would be unlikely to cause cancer.
The problem is today people eat tons of meat and cheese on a daily basis. Jews never ate like that historically, and it only became affordable after factory farming and subsidies made it possible in the late 20th century.
This is an area in which we shouldn’t emulate the goyim who happen to be living around us. Let us eat peas and lentils and bread and cucumbers so on, the daily staples we’ve been eating since the time of Tanakh.November 5, 2015 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #1110878
yytz, what’s the problem with cheese?November 5, 2015 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #1110879Sam2Participant
yytz: Only because we couldn’t afford it. The Gemara implies that it’s best to eat meat as much as possible.November 6, 2015 5:49 am at 5:49 am #1110880atlossParticipant
The studies don’t say meat CAUSES colon cancer. It says that here is a correlation between those who have higher consumption of red meat tend to have more incidences of colorectal cancer (CRC). Correlation does not imply causation.
It’s like saying that eating ice cream causes drowning because in the months that we consume more ice cream there are more drownings. Or maybe it’s because we both consume ice cream snd swim when it’s warm out.
Instead of avoiding meat. Get scoped at 50 and make sure that if you have a family history than get scoped earlier.
CRC is a very slow growing cancer so if it’s caught early there are usually no issues.
Being that In the frum, ashkenazi community, women have a much higher risk of CRC so they should be scoped when their doctors recommend.
Delaying a scope can kill someone.November 6, 2015 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #1110881
They placed processed meat in category one which are “carcinogenic to humans”
They placed read meat in 2a which are “probably carcinogenic to humans”
they did not jst look at trends, they looked at over 800 studies on the sbject and have a few theories as to the mechanism.
They did in fact say that processed mead causes cancer and red meat probably does.
they last paragraph is correct though, generally speaking
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