June 12, 2011 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #793853
See Mod 80’s point about sources.June 12, 2011 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #793854
See Mod 80’s point about sources.
Answer my question about thinking about elephants on Tuesdays. If you’re going to posit that I have to accept stuff based on your say so (via your comment about eating chazir) why don’t you have to accept stuff on my say so?
The WolfJune 12, 2011 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #793855
Answer my point about eating chazir.June 12, 2011 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #793856
Answer my point about eating chazir.
I did — with my question. In other words, if I had absolutely no other information to go on and I had no other inclination that eating chazir is prohibited by the Torah, I would not refrain based on your say so alone. Is that really such a shock? Your very question is predicated on the knowledge that I already know that chazir is forbidden. But if I had no such knowledge and no way to find out differently, why should I refrain based *solely* on your say so?
So, again, why do I have to take things based solely on your say so (i.e. deformed malachim) but you don’t have to have to accept my word based on my say so (not thinking about elephants)? I answered your question, now answer mine.
The WolfJune 12, 2011 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #793857MiddlePathParticipant
If I had no idea that eating bacon is prohibited, and a Rabbi that I know and respect told me I can’t eat bacon, and he didn’t mention any source, I would not eat bacon. If someone that I don’t know, who is on a web forum, told me I can’t eat bacon, and didn’t mention a source, I would probably still eat bacon.
On a side note, if you are going to say stuff like the “deformed malachim” idea, and have no source for it, please state openly that this is something that is your own idea, or at least say something along those lines. Don’t state it as a fact.June 12, 2011 10:36 pm at 10:36 pm #793858
Yes, it is a shock Wolf. Someone tells you that chazir is treif, but can’t point to the specific page and paragraph where it so says, but nevertheless advises you in no uncertain terms that it is 100% treif, you will wave him off as you head for your next portion of bacon?
Forget it.June 13, 2011 2:02 am at 2:02 am #793859YW Moderator-42Moderator
If a friend of mine tells me something is assur but can’t provide a source I would probably be choshesh for it.
If a random, anonymous person online tells me that something is assur, I would be less inclined to be choshesh – especially if that random, anonymous somebody is known to have radical opinions
I think that we have explained this to you before, Joseph. You are like the boy who cried wolf (no relation to The Wolf). Nobody listens to you because you present too many chumros as halacha and are therefore known as a radical zealot.June 13, 2011 2:04 am at 2:04 am #793860
Okay, eat the chazir.June 13, 2011 2:48 am at 2:48 am #793861
Someone tells you that chazir is treif, but can’t point to the specific page and paragraph where it so says, but nevertheless advises you in no uncertain terms that it is 100% treif, you will wave him off as you head for your next portion of bacon?
So, Joseph, will you now stop thinking about elephants on Tuesdays if I tell you in no uncertain terms that it is 100% certain that it is forbidden?
The WolfJune 13, 2011 2:54 am at 2:54 am #793862
I would until I asked my Rov/Posek (which would be ASAP) and he clarified it yea or nay.June 13, 2011 3:04 am at 3:04 am #793863
I would until I asked my Rov/Posek (which would be ASAP) and he clarified it yea or nay.
You’ll notice that I predicated my answer on having no other source of information available. So, assuming you didn’t have the opportunity to ask a Posek, would you not think about elephants on Tuesdays if I told you in no uncertain terms that it was 100% forbidden?
The WolfJune 13, 2011 3:04 am at 3:04 am #793864ItcheSrulikMember
Joseph: If someone who is known to be a ????”? says something is the halacha and provides no source and it doesn’t sound reasonable at all, I would be inclined to do the opposite in public to make a point. Or I would if I was of the stature that my doing something would make a point.June 13, 2011 4:00 am at 4:00 am #793866
Wolf: I already answered that with the first two words of my preceding comment. That being said, I find it almost impossible that I wouldn’t have a chance to ask a Rov/Posek.June 13, 2011 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #793867
Wolf: I already answered that with the first two words of my preceding comment.
That’s fine. But the fact that you’d listen to some random person on the internet spouting stuff in the name of religion without providing a source does not mean that I (or anyone else) is required to.
In any event, now that we’ve established that you will listen to random internet people who tell you things are assur until you have the opportunity to speak to a rav, I’m now telling you that it is forbidden to think about elephants or the number “42” on Mondays. I expect you to refrain until you speak to your rav about it. 🙂
The WolfJune 13, 2011 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #793868
My Rov just told me whoever said that is a bona-fide meshugana. (Considering you persistently asked me for an answer, and when you finally got it to only summarily dismiss it, it makes sense 🙂June 13, 2011 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #793869
My Rov just told me whoever said that is a bona-fide meshugana.
I never claimed to be anything different. I see that a bona fide rav has now confirmed it. 🙁
The WolfJune 26, 2011 4:22 am at 4:22 am #793870gefenParticipant
Pac Man mentioned that every time a word is pronounced incorrectly, a deformed malach is created. I’ve heard this too. My question is- There are many times in shul that the men daven so quickly, i cannot keep up. Is it possible to daven at such a speed and not mispronounce ANY of the words? I would think not – therefore there must be a lot of deformed malachim up there. I’m not trying to be funny, i’m serious. if it’s so important – and it should be – then why isn’t everyone more careful?June 26, 2011 7:42 am at 7:42 am #793871MiddlePathParticipant
Gefen, that is a valid question. But unfortunately, there are quite a lot of things that are very important, yet people seem to disregard them, while at the same time, they place importance on things that are not that important.
Still, I’m wondering where this deformed malach thing comes from..June 26, 2011 8:11 am at 8:11 am #793872EnglishmanMember
One Thousand Mitzvos in Five Minutes: The Chofetz Chaim (Toras HaBayis, Chapter 2) writes that when one enunciates words of Torah, he can say approximately 200 words in one minute, and each word constitutes a separate mitzvah (as explained by the Gra in his commentary to Mishna Peah 1:1) for which a separate “defense attorney” malach is created. This would mean, of course, that if one established a five-minute seder after Ma’ariv or before going to sleep, he would accumulate 7,000 mitzvos (and defense-attorney malachim) a week, or 365,000 for the solar year. In a lifetime, this translates into millions upon millions of mitzvos. We mention the five-minute seder specifically after Ma’ariv and/or before going to sleep, because the Shulchan Aruch (Orach Chayim 238) devotes an entire siman to the absolute requirement to set aside time to learn at night. We urge you to study the fascinating and uplifting words of the Mishne Berurah on this siman. TONIGHT IS THE NIGHT to start this “multi-million mitzva” five-minute k’viyus itim as a z’chus for yourself, your family and K’lal Yisroel. (From: Hakhel)June 26, 2011 9:04 am at 9:04 am #793873Mother in IsraelMember
I can’t provide a source, but I was taught about the deformed malach thing in elementary school.June 26, 2011 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #793875BasYisroel94Participant
I think ‘The Living Letters’ children’s book says something about the melochim. I could be wrong, as I haven’t read it in quite a while and I dont have it handy at the moment..August 4, 2011 2:43 am at 2:43 am #793876oyveykidsthesedaysMember
“I think ‘The Living Letters’ children’s book says something about the melochim. “
Speaking of pronunciation, “melochim” means kings. “Mal’achim” means angels.
😉July 6, 2020 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #1880180shmuelg613Participant
I too have this question of where this source is from. Meanwhile, all I could find was this….
R’ Pinchas said: “Through prayer we re-create the angel MeTaT every day anew. Therefore, one must be very careful not to skip a single word from the prayer, and every word must be said slowly and with concentration. And if, Heaven forbid, a person swallows the words and skips, he has created a demon … he has created a kind of angel without hands or feet, and then his body hurts him and he experiences all kinds of suffering, because that crippled angel that he created pursues him. … the letters of the prayer are chambers that are very far from one another, which is why it is so very difficult to pray. Because, really, a person is very far from true prayer. … Therefore, there is no need to look forward to any other experience of vitality than to just say the words slowly, even in a dry way, until eventually he will slowly warm up and feel more enthusiastic. (Therefore, someone who comes in the middle of the prayer has already lost out on so much, because the rest of the minyan started an hour earlier and has already managed to warm up. By the time the group gets to Baruch She’amar, they already can say it with some vitality and enthusiasm, and he has lost out on this)”
REBBE PINCHAS SHAPIRA OF KORETZ (1726-1791)July 18, 2020 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #1883382shmuelg613Participant
From Rabbi Rahmiel Hayyim Drizin,
We start with Pirke Avot 4:11:
רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶֽזֶר בֶּן יַעֲקֹב אוֹמֵר: הָעוֹשֶׂה מִצְוָה אַחַת, קֽוֹנֶה לּוֹ פְּרַקְלִיט אֶחָד, וְהָעוֹבֵר עֲבֵרָה אַחַת, קֽוֹנֶה לּוֹ קַטֵּגוֹר אֶחָד
Bartenura, simply states that a praklit means a, “malach melitz tov, a good interceding angel.” See also Rashi. Rav Zusha of Anipoli explains the Gemara in Chullin 7b that angel is created by each mitzvah and prayer. The action of the mitzvah and prayer creates the body of the angel, while the kavannah creates the angel’s soul. One who doesn’t want to do a mitzvah or pray creates the body of an angel which is lacking a soul since he didn’t wish to pray or do a mitzvah. Those who wish to do a mitzvah or pray but does not do so creates the soul of an angel which lacks a body….
Angels are not only summoned by our prayers, but actually born by them. Our sages taught that every human deed creates an angel. Good deeds create angels that advocate for us in heaven. Bad deeds create angels that prosecute us in heaven.The Baal Shem Tov taught that not only our deeds, but the words we speak also create angels. Our words of prayer not only summon angels; they create angels. Tzava’at HaRivash 17; Sefer Baal Shem Tov, Noach, Amud HaTefilah 18; Zohar Vol. I 23b., These angels are not only the carriers of our words; they are our words. See Zohar Chadash, Acharei 47a; Iyov 33:23
It follows that these angels reflect the nature of the words from which they are spawned. Angels born of exuberant and devoted prayer are vibrant and robust. Angels created by rote prayer are lackluster and lethargic. Tzava’at HaRivash 123; Maggid Devarav LeYaakov, sect. 58; The condition of these angels automatically broadcasts the nature of our prayers. If the angels are lackluster, the heavenly sphere knows that we prayed by rote. If they are robust, the heavens knows that we prayed with devotion. Biurim Lepirkei Avot p. 205 (Chabad)
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