December 8, 2014 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #614416
Is it ever okay?December 8, 2014 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #1136832YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
I can’t see what would be wrong with propping the baby, as long as someone is holding the bottle, of course.December 8, 2014 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #1136833
What if no one is holding the bottle? (It is propped and holding itself up on some object.)December 8, 2014 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #1136834
When the other 2 of the triplets are screaming and the 1 and 1/2 year old big sister is shampooing the carpet with toothpaste and the washing machine is overflowing and flooding the house and you only got 12 minutes of sleep the night before.
Otherwise, please hold that baby in your arms while he has his bottle. Same as you would if you were providing sustenance by other means.December 8, 2014 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1136835
A baby is meant to be nursed AND HELD during a feeding. If one chooses not to or cannot nurse for other reasons, then at least hold the baby while bottle feeding. Babies absolutely need the physical contact that nursing affords them. Propping the bottle deprives them (and the parent)of a very crucial developmental bond, which can affect their emotional development also (I am not making this up). Babies who are not held for feeding, do not thrive in the same way as babies who are. Nursing is best, but it is not for everyone, so at least give the baby the cuddling aspect of the nursing experiencing by holding him/her during a feeding. Some experts even feel it is a good idea (if feasible, of course) to hold the baby to one’s skin while bottle feeding, to simulate whatever is lacking when not being nursed.
If Golfer’s scenario is what is going on in your house, GET SOMEONE ELSE TO HOLD AND FEED THE OTHER BABY. Please don’t prop the bottle. This is a very hot button issue with me.December 8, 2014 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #1136836The FrumguyParticipant
BRAVO oomis!! There are some extremely lazy and self-centered “mothers” today who choose not to nurse solely for selfish reasons.December 8, 2014 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #1136837
NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!
I was so hoping that golfer and oomis would weigh in since I wasn’t near a computer 🙂
I second everything they said except that you may argue that if you do it just once or twice it may not hinder their development. The biggest problem with this, that trumps all and hasn’t been mentioned, is that a baby could ch”v DROWN! If you are propping a bottle, you are talking about an infant under 6-8 months. If you prop the bottle in his mouth and he starts coughing or doesn’t want anymore, he will start to kvetch and cry. This crying will bring more milk into his mouth and he will have nowhere to turn. It is really a terrible practice, VERY dangerous. Unfortunately there are lots of people out there who did it successfully who will tell you they lived thru it just fine. As if that is a raya . . .December 8, 2014 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #1136838
frumguy – while that may be the truth, there are some very pained mothers who wish they could nurse but can’t and may be very hurt by your comment.December 8, 2014 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1136839
My rule has always been: You’re old enough to drink when you’re old enough to hold the bottle.
So no, I would never prop up the bottle for a baby.
(Notice how beer bottles are easier to hold than whiskey bottles–this rule works!)December 8, 2014 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #1136840☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
You’re old enough to drink when you’re old enough to hold the bottle
You stole that from the LIBBI ad.December 8, 2014 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #1136841Torah613TorahParticipant
It is never okay. If you have triplets, you need to hire help or ask everyone in the community to do you some chessed, or both.
As Syag pointed out, babies drown from this, even ignoring the emotional damage.December 8, 2014 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #1136842
Frumguy, I take it you are in fact a guy?
Kindly do not offer opinions on mothers’ choices in feeding their infants.
Mothers choosing to bottle feed their babies are neither lazy nor self-centered. There are many cases where this is the most suitable option.
Young mothers are full of reasons to feel guilty and inadequate, when in fact the vast majority are putting heart and soul into doing a great job of loving, nurturing and caring for their infants.
I hope your post didn’t bruise any mother’s feelings…December 8, 2014 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1136843baruchderrinParticipant
No, not smart at all. they dont get burped in time which is painful when your stomach is the size of a marble and they’re more likely to end up with fluid in the ears which presents many problems. this is something u want to make sure to do properly.December 8, 2014 8:23 pm at 8:23 pm #1136844
Sorry golfer, you don’t get to choose who is allowed to have opinions. You can feel free to disagree, but you can’t claim a monopoly on opinions by choosing an arbitrary cut off point beyond which nobody is allowed to have an opinion.
It’s like saying men can’t have opinions on whether epidurals are a good idea.
It’s like saying women can’t have opinions on whether I should watch the football game, because they don’t know how much men like watching football.December 8, 2014 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #1136845
You are right, pba.
I was, as usual, being overprotective of my offspring (daughters and daughters-in-law) who are way beyond the point where they made my nights sleepless, and are now engaged in the care and feeding of their own small precious chicks. Some nurse, some bottle feed; all are wonderful amazing mothers.
Enjoy the game!December 8, 2014 9:37 pm at 9:37 pm #1136846
FYI: epidurals are awesome. Also pizza is awesome. I def recommend picking up pizza on the way to the hospital in case you get hungry during labor. You can even ask the nurse to grab you some ice chips and pretend they’re for your wife.December 8, 2014 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #1136847
popa – sure men can have opinions on epidurals but they’re meaningless. Much like most of their opinions on stuff (other than football and pizza)December 8, 2014 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #1136848The FrumguyParticipant
Please see my post. I never said ALL mothers — just that there “are some” who look for an easy way out of Hashem’s ideal way of nourishing a baby.December 8, 2014 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #1136849
they dont get burped in time which is painful when your stomach is the size of a marble and they’re more likely to end up with fluid in the ears which presents many problems.
How does it get from their stomach to their ears again?December 9, 2014 1:30 am at 1:30 am #1136850
Emotional damage? Is the idea that propping causes emotional damage supported by medical science or is that a gut feeling?December 9, 2014 3:01 am at 3:01 am #1136851
It’s supported by simple logic.December 9, 2014 3:05 am at 3:05 am #1136852
lior – before going off on a tangent about emotional damage, you did hear the part about physical danger and potential drowning, right?December 9, 2014 3:08 am at 3:08 am #1136853
Yes I did and am glad it was pointed out. I would also like to discuss the scientific correctness of the point made by previous respondents above asserting emotional damage.December 9, 2014 3:17 am at 3:17 am #1136854☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Lior, google “baby not held enough”.December 9, 2014 3:26 am at 3:26 am #1136855
TY. That is certainly a strong argument for holding while feeding and even a strong argument for breastfeeding rather than bottle feeding altogether. But assuming the baby is being provided sufficient physical comfort of parental contact in forms other than feeding, just as it is acceptable (though not preferable) to bottle feed over breastfeed, it would seem it isn’t the propping per se that is causing any emotional damage due to the non-contact while feeding.December 9, 2014 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #1136856
Lior – please understand that what you are saying is something that can cause harm to a baby. And yes, there are MANY studies that prove there is great emotional harm to a baby. Throughout the baby’s waking day, there should be physical contact between the baby and other people IN ADDITION to the very crucial feeding contact, whether by breast or bottle. BABIES NEED PHYSICAL CONTACT in constant real time, which is probably why Hashem created women to nurse babies, in order to ensure they would get that contact. That does not mean they don’t need contact throughout the day BESIDES the feeding. Also, the position in which they lie while feeding, helps keep the eustachean tubes in the ears open, so they don’t get fluid as readily as when they either lie flat or are propped and drinking. The nursing position is unique in its perfection, so a baby being bottle fed should be held exactly like that. Hashem knew what he was doing.
Syag – spot on about the dangers of drowning, especially when the baby cannot move its mouth off the bottle (and if it COULD, then what possible purpose would there be to propping it, if one would have to keep putting it back in the baby’s mouth?).
In orphanages where newborn babies (unfortunately out of necessity due to the small ratio of available caretakers to large numbers of infants) were not held much of the day, the babies often failed to thrive. While nursing is best for most babies, bottle feeding can accomplish much, if not all, of the same good ends, if the baby is held in a nursing position while being bottle fed. The warmth of a human hand on the baby, cuddled up against its caregiver, stimulates crucial physical AND emotional growth developmental signals in that baby.
And Frumguy. you mean well, but not every woman is cut out to nurse a baby, and not every woman is physically capable, and they should not be made to feel by anyone, that they are failures or lazy, or anything negative. I myself was unable to do so for my first two children, though I gave it a very valiant effort (to their detriment) for weeks. B”H I came to realize I had to let go of my bruised feminine ego and give a bottle, and my two eldest children did fine on formula. With my last three, B”H I was successful at establishing a fantastic nursing routine, and did so with great joy for a long time. Not every mom, even the most dedicated, loving one, is able to succeed in this particular area. Don’t blame them. I know you don’t, and that you are referring to a small group of women (yes, there are some).
If one does not wish to nurse, that is entirely her decision. It is a very personal one, sometimes even a painful one. But it is wise NOT to find ways to legitimize doing something that is mamesh harmful to a helpless infant, like propping a bottle. it is not ok. It is simply NOT ok. Hire a babysitter to feed the baby, if one is overwhelmed. Let Bubby and Zaydy help, if possible, and Dad should be pitching in as well. But a baby should not suffer in the process.
I am sorry for the rant, but this is another one of those issues about which I have such strong feelings (like mother’s working outside the home fulltime, when they have their small children being raised by nannies), that I tend to get on the soap box about it. I don’t mean to hurt anyone’s feelings. if I did, I apologize.December 9, 2014 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #1136857
just as a side bar to frumguy, yes, you did NOT say anything about women who don’t nurse being lazy. I believe I understood what you meant because I have made the same statements. I just know how easy it is to mis-hear those statements (as you see) and mothers are often very fragile.
I do remember hearing two comments almost decades ago that still ring in my ears. One mom friend said to me, “I am DEFINITELY not nursing this baby, why would anyone want to be tied down like that?” another was “I don’t want to nurse this baby because we will be moving and it is such a pain in the neck to nurse when you have other things to do”. Yes, I know that we can’t judge etc etc, but those were friends of mine and I am pretty clear on what they meant and said. But my point is that that is NOT typical, and even if that is more along the lines of the thinking frumguy was referring to, most mom’s, Thank Gd, have a much different attitude.February 8, 2016 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #1136859
What, if any, negative health effects occur from propping a baby with a bottle? I recall something about it possibly being harmful for the teeth if the bottle is left in his mouth after his completes it, due to the sugar. Is that indeed the case, and are there other potential issues?February 8, 2016 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #1136860
Joseph, since you bring this up again, yes there is potential for great harm. It is a potential choking hazard, it is a potential hazard if the bottle falls from its prop, it’s a hazard of damage to the teeth when they emerge, and most important it is crucial hazard to the baby’s emotional development.
A parent who will prop a bottle regularly, may also not be holding the baby during other parts of the day. Babies physically and emotionally need one on one physical contact. True, it does not have to be the mom, but that is certainly the ideal. So if the mother for whatever reason cannot regularly hold her baby, she should find someone else, who will.February 9, 2016 1:18 am at 1:18 am #1136861
Syag Lchochma -“sure men can have opinions on epidurals but they’re meaningless.”
Tell that to the anesthesiologist before he gives it to a lady in labor. I’d like to see his reaction!
BTW, most anesthesiologists are males.February 9, 2016 1:59 am at 1:59 am #1136862
The anesthesiologist’s opinions on epidurals don’t matter. Only the facts matter.February 9, 2016 11:26 am at 11:26 am #1136863
RY23 -“The anesthesiologist’s opinions on epidurals don’t matter. Only the facts matter”
True. Who do you think that you’ll get a factual opinion from – the anesthesiologist or the woman in labor or the doula?!?February 9, 2016 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #1136864
The woman who had ten babies.February 9, 2016 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #1136865
RY23 -“The woman who had ten babies.”
You’d be correct, if the anesthesiologist was doing his residency during his first month!February 9, 2016 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1136866
The anesthesiologist knows how to give epidurals, but knows nothing about getting them. So if I ever need to give one, I’ll ask an anesthesiologist.February 9, 2016 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #1136867🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
How about propping up a baby bottle while pushing said baby in a rear facing stroller? It’s so hard to hold the bottle while walking.February 9, 2016 9:50 pm at 9:50 pm #1136868
RY23 -“but knows nothing about getting them.”
You don’t have to be the recipient to know about the procedure. Doctors are trained about side effects also!February 9, 2016 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #1136869
How about propping up a baby bottle while pushing said baby in a rear facing stroller? It’s so hard to hold the bottle while walking.
You bad, bad, mommy! 😉February 10, 2016 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1136870
Experience counts.February 10, 2016 1:00 am at 1:00 am #1136871
RY23 -“Experience counts.”
Yes it does, but not as much as a medical professional!
That’s why there’s a shortage of PCP’s, because experience doesn’t count that much.February 10, 2016 1:59 am at 1:59 am #1136872
Our opinions don’t count.February 10, 2016 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #1136873
RY23 -“Our opinions don’t count.”
It depends. Probably when you post somewhere, it doesn’t. But if you’re a parent, it sometimes does count!February 10, 2016 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #1136874Trust 789Member
A woman has the right to decide to bottle feed her baby for whatever reason she thinks it’s better for her. As long as the baby is getting proper nutrition and being fed by a caring responsible person at all times. It doesn’t make her lazy or selfish if she thinks her schedule will be too demanding for her to handle nursing her baby.
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