PSA About the Use of the Phrase “Trolling” 📢

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Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
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  • #1438703

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    I’ve noticed that a lot of people on these forums misuse the word “troll.” Many here are predictably not very connected with mainstream internet culture, so this is understandable.

    By the most traditional definition, when you call someone a troll, you’re actually saying they do not really believe what they are saying in their post. So, for example, responding to a post you consider misogynistic by saying, “so-and-so is trolling; he’s a known misogynist” is self-contradictory. Someone sharing an opinion that is legitimately their opinion is not trolling just because you don’t like it.

    A real troll post would be like if, hypothetically, someone who recently made a bunch of anti-Chabad-meshichism posts wrote a post arguing that Rubashkin is moshiach. Hypothetically.

    If you take the troll post seriously and yell at the troll, he laughs at you. If you take it seriously and AGREE with it, he laughs at you even more.

    #1438723

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    there are trolls who write posts for the sake of riling people up and causing machlokes regardless of their views.

    #1438739

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Neville, this forum has its own slang, as Popa said to the Wikipedians (IRRC).

    #1438804

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “there are trolls who write posts for the sake of riling people up and causing machlokes regardless of their views.”

    That’s not trolling. When David Duke publishes his Antisemitism, it’s not trolling; he really believes the stuff. It riles people up because he’s a jerk, not a troll.

    “Neville, this forum has its own slang”

    Yes it does, but “trolling” is not CR specific slang. It’s a popular internet slang word which just happens to be misused a lot on this site.

    #1438806

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    And of course some folks just say things that are so stupid, everyone assumes they are “trolling”….

    #1438827

    Avi K
    Participant

    In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion, often for the troll’s amusement. (Wikipedia)

    So it is irrelevant if the troll believes what he writes or not.

    #1438824

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “And of course some folks just say things that are so stupid, everyone assumes they are “trolling”….”

    That does happen a lot. Some part of me still wonders if those users are just the most brilliant trolls in the history of the internet. I recently saw an old thread on which Charlie Hall stated that’s it’s very wrong to ever go against your minhagei avos, then literally about 2 posts down he says that American Ashkenazim all collectively did a huge aveira by not giving up their minhagim and converting to Sphard. I would have believed that to be advanced trolling, but he was way too consistent through the years.

    #1438817

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “there are trolls who write posts for the sake of riling people up and causing machlokes regardless of their views.”
    That’s not trolling. When David Duke publishes his Antisemitism, it’s not trolling; he really believes the stuff. It riles people up because he’s a jerk, not a troll.

    David Duke did not post for the sake of riiling people up. You mentioned the David Duke ilk in your post. I was mentioning others.

    “Neville, this forum has its own slang”
    Yes it does, but “trolling” is not CR specific slang. It’s a popular internet slang word which just happens to be misused a lot on this site.

    my only answer to that is that if you weren’t where you shouldn’t be it wouldn’t be bothering you.

    #1438830

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Neville ChaimBerlin,

    That’s not trolling. When David Duke publishes his Antisemitism, it’s not trolling; he really believes the stuff. It riles people up because he’s a jerk, not a troll.

    Your definition is simply not correct. Using anti-Semites as an example like you did, an infamous neo-Nazi Web site makes itself a base for what it calls a “troll army” to attack prominent Jews in the media. The neo-Nazis on that site thus really do believe what they are saying, yet refer to themselves as trolls. Additionally, governments, organizations, and political factions are increasingly resorting to online trolling as a means to advance their agendas or products.

    I understand that you may be concerned about someone with honestly held controversial views who unintentionally disrupts a forum or engenders highly emotional responses being labeled a troll perhaps unfairly, or people using troll as an ad hominem to attack those with differing positions, but your redefinition of the term is much too narrow. I would broaden the definition of troll to mean someone on an online forum who attempts to provoke, surreptitiously influence (e.g., caution trolls, or sockpuppetry), or cause pain, regardless of what his/her true views are.

    Yes it does, but “trolling” is not CR specific slang. It’s a popular internet slang word which just happens to be misused a lot on this site.

    I’ve typically seen it used correctly here, and with a few exceptions, those identified as trolls are usually rightly identified.

    #1438841

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    “Trolling” isn’t CR-specific slang, but in CR slang, the word has a different meaning.

    #1438878

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Syag: “my only answer to that is that if you weren’t where you shouldn’t be it wouldn’t be bothering you.”

    Yes, probably true. You realize not everyone here is FFB? This thread was actually not meant to rile people up as a troll thread about trolling (as ingeniously creative and hilarious as that would be). The point was that you accomplish nothing by calling people with whom you disagree “trolls.”

    ““Trolling” isn’t CR-specific slang, but in CR slang, the word has a different meaning.”

    OK, at least you admit it. It’s kind of like how the word “literally” is used incorrectly so commonly that there was talk of including the new (wrong) definition in the dictionary. I consistently hold out forever when it comes to the changing of grammar. For example, “they” will never be a singular pronoun in my mind no matter who says it is.

    Avram, I heard the far right commentator claim that the Antisemitism online is mostly not real as it’s “just trolling.” I do NOT agree that this is true, but the point is that those types use “trolling” as a disguise on purpose.

    #1438881

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Let me give an example more near and dear to you:

    The “How do we explain to girls not to light the menorah?” was an obvious troll thread. The poster probably is of the opinion that girls shouldn’t light, but is PRETENDING to be stupider than he/she really is and pretending to be unaware that most don’t hold that way. If that poster had just started a thread called “I don’t think girls should light the menorah,” that wouldn’t be trolling; there’s no deception. That just voicing an opinion that might happen to rile some people up.

    #1438890

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Troll

    #1439193

    64

    #1439216

    Put down the gun
    Participant

    One of the definitions of troll on Google is a “person who deliberately makes a provocative or inflammatory post online”. It has nothing to do with if you believe in the content of your post or not.

    #1440257

    mentsch1
    Participant

    Neville
    According to your definition
    How are you ever supposed to know the real beliefs of an anonymous internet poster? The label of troll must be left up to the interpretation of the reader(s)

    #1440301

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “How are you ever supposed to know the real beliefs of an anonymous internet poster? ”

    What you’re asking me is “you really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?”

    #1440334

    Avi K
    Participant

    Neville, the problem starts when he tells you that he always lies.

    #1442604

    MTAB
    Participant

    I understand your frustration with this. Most people use the word against anyone who says anything they disagree with. And it’s an insulting word. What’s a troll. It’s saying you are a wierd, icky creature because you disagree with me.

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