June 19, 2018 12:23 am at 12:23 am #1541831June 19, 2018 11:27 am at 11:27 am #1542212
Joseph, when was this letter written? I see many undersigned not alive anymore.June 19, 2018 11:27 am at 11:27 am #1542223
Notice how the current satmar rebbes names dont appear there. Wonder why!June 19, 2018 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #1542541
The little I knowParticipant
Firstly, this is not a psak. The halacha about arkaos has been existence since time immemorial. This document is not saying anything new.
Secondly, this is just a public proclamation that notes that it has become all too common for disputes to be taken to courts when the first stop needs to be a beis din. This became necessary because the batei din have been far more ineffective than they should be. In many cases, the expected results from a court will be more favorable to one side. These types of situations raise the likelihood that batei din will be bypassed. Whether there is merit to these beliefs or not, halacha does not provide the dispensation to go to arkaos. Only batei din have the option of referring the case.
Lastly, the title of the thread – reporting, suggests the document is about mesira. It is not. It is about arkaos. They are not the same, and should not be confused. The most recent attention to “reporting” within the frum community concerns child abuse, and batei din and the majority of rabbonim have recognized that their resources offer nothing that protects children. There have been similar documents in which rabbonim specifically instruct to report such cases directly. I am not taking a position on this. But it should be clear that arkaos and mesira are different matters, and one is addressed here, the other not.June 19, 2018 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #1542522
Rav Ephraim Oshry is a signer and he died in 2003June 19, 2018 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #1543370
Rav Moshe Stern Debretziner Rav undersigner passed away in 1997.June 19, 2018 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #1543496
For the greatness of the averoh of Arkaos see the Rabbenu Bachaye in the beginning of Parshas Mishpotim.June 19, 2018 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #1543554
Psak on reporting what? If you’re trying to fool anyone into thinking that this decades-old document is about reporting abusers to the police, this may be your lowest piece of trolling yet. Gedolim such as Hagaon R. Chaim Kanievsky, Shlita, have stated unambiguously on video that abusers should be reported to the authorities.
Perhaps you don’t care very much about your own children (was it 27 at the last count?), probably because they’re as fake as the “halacha” you spew, but the rest of us do. Go troll about something harmless, or better yet, go learn for a change!June 19, 2018 9:20 pm at 9:20 pm #1543564
“lt is clear that no one in the world has the authority to establish guilt without both [the accuser and accused] coming to an accepted bais din for the matter to be heard amongst “brothers.” lf one does this [establishes guilt without a determination of a bais din] even if he is “as tall as a cedar treeיי [a great scholar] he has made an absolute error. And more so he [the accuser] may not take any damaging action against the accused and even more so may not bring any accusation to the secular authorities. Such actions [reporting made to the secular authorities] are elucidated in [Shulchan Aruch] Choshen Mishpat chapter 388 [which discusses the penalties for “mesira” reporting to the secular authorities]. And there can be no [Jewish law] lawful and righteous means [to report to the secular authorities] other than to first show that one has in their possession a clear detailed ruling in writing from an expert Bais Din that includes specifics of the matter. And if one violates this ruling and commits the deed of reporting to the secular authorities it is incumbent upon him to rectify this misdeed and do everything possible to clear the accused of any trace of allegations with the secular authorities. And it does not need to be said that it is prohibited to assist and participate with them [the secular authorities] in their efforts to persecute a Jew.”June 20, 2018 9:51 am at 9:51 am #1543781
Rav Avrohom Spitzer
Rosh Yeshiva of Mesivta of Lakewood
Rav Tzvi Yosef Burstien
Dayan – Skver
Rav Eliyahu Levine
Rosh Kollel of Kollel Choshen Mishpat
Rav Shlomo Gisinger
Rabbi of Cong Zichron Yaakov
Rav Chaim Ginsberg
Rosh Chabura – Beth Medrash Gevoha
Rav Shmuel Mayer Katz
Dayan – Beth Medrash Gevoha
Rav Yosef Zimbal
Rabbi – Congregation Westgate
Rav Simcha Bunim Cohen
Rabbi – Congregation Ateres Yeshaya
Rav Meir Reuvein Berkowitz
Rabbi – Congregation Whispering Pines SefardJune 20, 2018 10:08 am at 10:08 am #1543893
# 5 says that one may call authorities in a situation of sakanaJune 20, 2018 11:30 am at 11:30 am #1543924
I thought it was about reporting all ones income to the appropriate taxing authorities.June 20, 2018 11:32 am at 11:32 am #1543937
What is this letter relevant to? Reporting child abuse? Reporting a financial crime? Reporting violence against a wife?
What exactly is the point in real-life behavior choices?
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