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Avira, in fairness, I not infrequently hear Litvishe Bnei Torah refer to their Rosh Yeshiva as “the Rosh Yeshiva” even when speaking to people or groups of people not affiliated with their Yeshiva.
TS, i was saying the reason why lubavitchers refer to him as “the rebbe” even when talking to people who aren’t lubavitch, because they think he’s everyone’s rebbeh,nasi, etc. I don’t believe that myself: he was a rebbe of lubavitcher chasidim, not others and was by no means the first and foremost leader of a generation… We haven’t had one figure as a completely universal leader since rebbe yehuda hanasi
commonsaychel,
“@avrahm in md, I was puzzzled by the level of support and I said so in the post, I also wrote in a other post I found the frum trump motorcades cringe worthy.”
No dice. You didn’t speak out against the “motorcades” once in that thread, and even downplayed them as “beeping minivans”. Nowhere in that thread do I see any criticism of the motorcades from you. Yet here you utilize strong language: absurd, dorf, guise, ragtag, hollering, and then finally you get to the minivans. Even if somewhere else you called the political motorcades cringeworthy, that is paltry compared to the rhetorical condemnations you brought here against Chanukah motorcades. My question to you stands.
commonsaychel,
“I hope this thead does not morph into a anti Chabad forum”
Yet you started a thread attacking what they almost exclusively do. Troll meet thyself.
“my issue is with people competing with santa and xmas tree lighting that was never done since we established chanuka, not Chabad per se.”
So go after the people who put those giant blow-up bears with kippas and dreydels in their front yards, or those who do the laser light magen davids dancing on their houses under twinkly snowflake decorations next door to the houses with Xmas lights. I’ve never had the sense that the Chabad menoras on minivans shtick is competition with Xmas. They do sukkos on pickup trucks, lag baomer barbecues with bounce houses and loud music, and they stand outside sports stadiums with tefillin. They make a pretty big spectacle about everything.
“FYI I wrote quite a number of post negitive of the need to have frum people make a motorcade for trump and frankly that is a few people gping overboard in voicing an opinon for a political candidate.”
Can you show me links to these posts? Must’ve been somewhere other than the thread you started to specifically talk about the level of support for Trump.
Chabad shluchim, in order to attract non-frum college students and alike, to bring them back to rheir roots, do compete against the goyim. And do you disagree with that?
TS Baum, as mentioned above, although kiruv is grey, the successful ends don’t justify the inappropriate means.
Thus it has been long recognized in the USA that the erection of a public Chanukah menorah is a positive thing because of its universal message of freedom of the human spirit, freedom from tyranny and oppression, and of the ultimate victory of good over evil, just as “a little light dispels a lot of darkness.” These fundamental human aspirations and principles, as visibly symbolized by [the] kindling of the Chanukah lights, are surely shared by the vast majority of Americans.
-The Rebbe Nov 22, 1981
As a conservative commonsaychel, how do you answer this statement?
Lost, I’m no chosid of the lubavitcher rebbe, but I honestly don’t believe he meant such a statement for his religious followers – a menorah is a “symbol” (mehaycha taysa?) that most Americans can identify with? Tyranny? It was that the Greeks wanted to regulate our religion… many Americans would support a government reining in a “weird” religion. Americans want to be free to watch television and eat hot dogs, not serve Hashem. I think the lubavitcher rebbe was speaking to or meant for his statement to be heard by goyim, honestly.
commonsaychel,
“none of those are trying to compete with old st nick, I started this tread because I find those actions cringworthy, I dont care if it was Satmar, Brisk or Breslov its way too in you face.”
All of those examples are very “in your face”, but you only have a problem by Chanukah. The local Chabad here even did a loud music drive by through the neighborhood last year on Lag Baomer, so the motorcades aren’t an imitation of some sort of Xmas ritual. Xians don’t even do motorcades to celebrate Xmas. They frustrate themselves untangling strings of lights, slip on ladders, and then go fight in the malls. It’s too bad that Chanukah falls in close proximity to a major non-Jewish holiday, but is that Chabad’s fault?
“I find those beyond repulsive but this is a natural next step in the progression downward, so thank you minivans.”
Natural next step? Seems incongruous to me.
“I still cant understand the purpose of the motorcade driving in Manhattan, was it to be in your face? I am serious I am trying to understand the thought process.”
No dice. By the political minivan motorcade you simply asked for the purpose and thought process. By the Chanukah minivan motorcades you called it “idioticy” (sic) and presumed the purpose (who are we competing with?). My question to you still stands. Maybe you cringed a little by the Trump motorcades, but Chabad’s Chanukah shtick really gets your blood boiling. Why?
From the back and forth it seems that a likely reason is you perceive it as an imitation of Xmas. So why not make that the focus of the conversation if that’s the biggest deal? I personally fail to see it as imitation. Those who “motorcade” for Chanukah (*cough Chabad *cough) “motorcade” for every Jewish holiday. And those frum Jews who do not go all in-your-face for Jewish holidays don’t for Chanukah either. If you were to ask me, it’s the involvement of politicians in the Chanukah “motorcades” that makes me cringe.
“where reportedly Jews do not walk publicly in kipah?”
I was in Paris a decade ago and almost everywhere in the city, on sidewalks and subways, I saw Jewish men wearing yarmulkes. There are synagogues all over the city and the government pays a significant part of the cost of Jewish schools. The city felt like New York. Kosher restaurants all over, too, and all of them had good food — not like New York. 😉
charlie, ten years is many days
Well this is what chabad shluchim do and yeshiva world coffee room commentators will not change anything, and we won’t even decide what is ‘right’. Have a problem with it? DOn’t show up to your local chanukah public menorah lighting next year, and sholom al yisrael. Discussion closed, let’s move on.
Let’s talk about purim. (Not on this thread, a differet one.)Literally this thread summed up in one statement
“I’m triggered Jews are lighting menorahs in public.”If you are offended by public displays of yiddishkiet I suspect deeper issues are at play than Menorahs being lit in public. Honestly all the best, but I’m really concerned why you are acting so triggered.
Lostspark- if that is your response after reading this thread than you either read it with your eyes closed, have a sad case of denial, or have gotten a heavy dose of indoctrination. All three options are unfortunate.
I get annoyed when I read articles about people making a fuss about their city only putting up goyishe decorations and not menorahs. It’s a chillul Hashem, in my opinion. No one looks at a man in a yarmulka standing up at a public meeting in the city hall of a place with 0.0001% Jews complaining about their decorations and thinks anything good.
Putting up large menorahs is a chillul Hashem. It is stupid, it degrades the message of holiness, it is all about PR. I suggest all who want to be “mekarev” secular Jews, and goyim who claim they are Jews, to spread the message of Yiddishkeit to their own families, to spread the message of what it means to be ehriche Yidden and not to live like misyavnim embracing the goyish culture while claiming to be ehriche Yidden.
Btw does anyone know where to find the source where the Rambam wrote that the menorah he sketched is for illustration purpose only?
RW: Who said the Rambam said that?
I heard that he wrote a note that it was for visual purpose only. Also in the sketch aren’t the branches all on different levels? If we learn out that the menorah was straight branches from the sketch do we also learn that the branches aren’t supposed to be even height? Or do we pick what’s for visual purpose and whats for learning purpose?
RW
He wrote it in the same place as the sketch in Pirush hamishnayos
Menachos 3:7” I will depict the cups in a triangle, the knobs in a circle, and the flower in
a half-circle. I have done this to make the picture easier, since the purpose of the picture is not to
tell us the exact model of the cups, since I already explained it. Rather, the intent is to know the
number of cups, knobs, and blossoms”rough translation.
In other words, the sketch is not an accurate drawing, rather it’s point is to outline where the and how many of these decorations there were
But what about regarding the branches. Was that for illustration purpose or to show that the branches were straight and not curved as his son stated?
“But what about regarding the branches. Was that for illustration purpose or to show that the branches were straight and not curved as his son stated?”
Presumably his son would know better than us
So does the illustration come to teach us something after all? For example the branches being straight and not curved?
From the illustration itself it is unclear. The Rambam says explicitly that the illustration is to show the layout of the decorations (only?).
However the Rambam’s son writes that it also shows the Rambam’s view that it was diagonal
I wonder where it’s brought out that it’s diagonal. Especially since pretty much all the archaeology shows the menorahs curved. Did all of bnei yisroel throughout those times err that the menorah had curved branches? Or were they really just drawing out different menorahs and not the main one? Its interesting to know where the source for the branches of the menorah is from.
rw > Did all of bnei yisroel throughout those times err
maybe people on purpose did not draw the right menorah to prevent building forbidden replicas?
I don’t think that would make sense.
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