- This topic has 26 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 2 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
I’m not sure I will find much support here, but here goes.
So walking around the bima in a packed shul doesn’t seem to work well. People keep trying to make bigger circles but all this seems to do is have people standing and staring at each other in a bigger circle.
In a circle if one person stops moving nobody moves, There are only two ways that can get a tight circle of people to move. either someone leads the crowd shouting ”
” Everybody all together, right leg, LEft leg, Right leg…” OR gentle nudging of the person in front of you.
But many people get very uptight about this. It doesnt have to be shoving no need to poke with the lulav but without nudging (or a conductor directing everyone) the circle doesnt seem to move.(Now obviously doing hakafos during hoshanos isnt a deoraysah nor even derababon so it isnt the biggest deal but presumably the people trying to do the hakafos want to do the hakafos)
You have to know how to nudge without upsetting people. If the guy in front of you becomes stationary, very very slightly bumping into him, as if you were simply continuing to walk — as expected, since the circle should be continuously moving — should not set off any fire bells.
If the shul is big enough, you can make multiple rings of circles. If the shul is not very big, those walking in a circle directly around the Bima slows down the other circle(s), and so usually such a circle (or even individuals) directly around the Bima should not be occurring in a non-large shul.
Turn around and follow the minhag of the Contrarianner Rebbe and do the hakofos counterclockwise…will immediately force a decision by those formerly behind you and now unquestionably obstructing yidden from their efforts to complete their hakofos. Alternatively, you can have one of your chevrah walk to the side and bang on the bimah shouting that the Kiddush club will be starting in 5 minutes in the sukkah. That should quickly clear out sufficient room for hakofos in whatever direction you wish to move. A gutten moed.
Weave in and out of rows to stretch out the “circle”
ubiq, how’d you (gently) nudge him?
If the guy is quickly fixing his Talis, turning his page or picking up a fallen Esrog, that is a reasonable delay. What else is he expected to do — continue walking while leaving his Esrog on the floor, his Machzor on the wrong page or his Talis falling half off??
Any plan that includes intrusion of others is not on the table.
This should be klal yisroels biggest problem this year.
Nu, ubiq, did you find it necessary to shove anyone over again on Simchas Torah, in order to keep the hakafos moving smoothly? 😉
Why don’t you just daven at a shule with less people, or at an earlier minyan?
Because it is a bigger inyan to daven in a larger minyan.
ubiquitin:
“or at an earlier minyan”
This was the earlier minyan, Im not sure why you thought that would be better.I find that, generally, the earlier the minyan, the less people will be there. Therefore, there will be less (or even no) shoving.
joseph:
Because it is a bigger inyan to daven in a larger minyan.
That’s nice, you made a little poem there. I still pick more comfort and less people. In addition, I get home earlier, which means I’m around to help the wife more, which increases shalom bayit.
Why would you pick comfort over better tefila?? A bigger minyan means you’re tefilos are more likely to be accepted.
“Why would you pick comfort over better tefila?? A bigger minyan means you’re tefilos are more likely to be accepted.”
What if the crowded, uncomfortable conditions reduce the kavanah of the attendees? Doesn’t that mean that the tefilos are less likely to be accepted?
“A bigger minyan means you’re tefilos are more likely to be accepted.'”
Yup joe….a core inyan of yiddeshkeit is that “bigger is always better”….the mega car dealer flying a 30×40 ft flag along the interstate is obviously a bigger patriot the the poor shlump who has a small flag at the side of his trailer selling used cars along a country road 1/2 mile away. Bigger minyanim are better minyanim and the Ebeshter will “hear” their supplications without any other consideration as to the constituents of the minyan, their own personal hashkafah or the kavanah with which they daven…..Your Trumpian view of yiddishkeit is everything must be HUUUUGE!!!
Leave it to GH to show ignorance of the Halacha of ברוב עם הדרת מלך.
If a guy gets bent out of shape due to gentle and possibly accidental contact during hoshanos, then he’s a drama maker. Drama can only be defeated by bigger drama. Yell “AYIEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!” and smack him on the head with your lulav. That’ll fix everything; i.e., you will no longer be encumbered by that particular minyan.
🙂
The minyan is not too big, but the shul is too small.
The Vaydaber Moshe interprets in a sarcastic manner מה נוורא המקום הזה אין זה אלא בית אלקים how frightening is this place (being too small) it must be a shul.
> shul is too small.
R Salanter called a guy a thief for standing near a window in a filled out shul, monopolizing fresh air.
GH > Bigger minyanim are better minyanim
It may be not just size, but also unity (a Sukkos theme): R Berel Wein says that if there are 100 Jews in a town, Hashem wants them to be in one shul. What they do? 10 shuls with 10 people. What do they end up with? 11 shuls with 9 people. I am adding – you can be the 100th and make a minyan at all of them. This is all pre-covid, of course,
Someone (an inside person) here said now: we have inside and outside people. for Sukkos, we all join together finally.
@AAQ
What did R’ Berel Wein do with the last person?@AAQ i never missed a minyan during the entire covid and danced hand to hand maskless and un vaxed in this and last simchas torahs
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.