August 1, 2008 1:48 am at 1:48 am #587949bugnotParticipant
Why cant people put their seforim back onto the shelves when they are finished with them?August 3, 2008 2:57 am at 2:57 am #623018bugnotParticipant
Baruch Hashem i am not the only one that thinks its normal to put a sefer back on the shelf when your’e finished with it.August 3, 2008 3:21 am at 3:21 am #623019favishMember
this is a real lost case…we put back sefer used even when was on table before and didnt take out….August 3, 2008 6:18 am at 6:18 am #623020williMember
Why cant people put their seforim back onto the shelves when they are finished with them?
Posted 2 days ago #
#1- they forget
#2- lazinessAugust 3, 2008 11:52 am at 11:52 am #623021shauleMember
its called laziness ….it causes ti forget your learningAugust 3, 2008 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #623022lesschumrasParticipant
Even worse is when people borrow sforim ( and I really mean borrow with good intentions ) and forget to bring the sefer back.August 3, 2008 2:36 pm at 2:36 pm #623023reenmasheenMember
i’m not exactly sure but i think it was the steipler who wrote that not putting seforim back on the shelf is a very severe sin since you are causing bittul torah to the person who is trying to look for it and learn it especially if the person is a talmid chachamAugust 4, 2008 1:26 am at 1:26 am #623024dikdukMember
Yes, it was the Stiepler. The letter is hanging in the Beis Midrash where I learn.August 4, 2008 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #623025
The best way out of this is never to use a sefer.
1) Know kol hatorah kula ba’al peh and always daven/bentsch without a siddur
2) …August 4, 2008 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #623026jphoneMember
People “forget” to put away seforim for the same reason they double park their car, cut ahead in line, interuppt someone …….
They are thinking about themself and nobody else. If they would have other people in mind, they wouldl realize that their actions have an impact on other people, and if they cared about those other people, would act in a way that positively impacted those other people.August 5, 2008 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #623027Think BIGMember
I was waiting for someone else to say this, but no one else is so i will. To all husbands and yeshiva bochurim: Putting your sefarim away should apply to your home too. If you learn on the dining room table and leave all your heavy sefarim around it can greatly inconvenience your family members. (Of course if you have your own private study, pile them on to your hearts content.)August 6, 2008 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #623028Mayan_DvashParticipant
my first reaction was to call you names (eg. am haaretz or apikores) but then I realized how deep your comment really is. If a person cannot return his sefer then I agree that person should never be allowed to use a sefer. Let the people who have derech eretz have the privilege to learn torah. (derech eretz kodnmah letorah). Your COMMENT IS BRILLIANT!August 6, 2008 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #623029feivelParticipant
jphone, how true
i would though change one thing:
“and if they cared about those other people,”
i would change it to:
if they thought about those other people
when you think about other peoples needs all the time, and act accordingly in all your actions, even in small things, even in picking up a small piece of paper from the floor, it becomes a wonderful uplifting process. as is logical, because certainly by doing so you give great Nachas to the Ribono Shel Olam. and can you imagine the schar?, in both worlds?August 6, 2008 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #623030HaMagnatMember
The worst is people that leave their shtenders right up against the bench in front of them and decapitate the next guy who sits down. Ouch. Or even worse, when someone’s already sitting there and they stand up to get a sefer or yell at their Chavrusa and SMASH the neck of the guy in front of them. – to be dan l’caf z’chus, it’s hard to notice what’s happening around you when involved in a G’shmakeh Rashba, K’tzos, R’ Akiva Eiger, etc. I think the KosherLamp Company should develop a neck protector to solve this terrible crises.August 6, 2008 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm #623031HaMagnatMember
Correction: Crisis. Crises is the plural.August 13, 2008 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #623032
Mayan Dvash – I only just saw your comment (so it’s “b’yom shohmoi). Besides for the obvious reason why you shouldn’t call people names, the names you chose are largely inappropriate. If I never crack a sefer in all my life, does that imply that I am an Apikores? I think not. Many fine pashuta yidden of yesteryear never owned or used a sefer, yet their emunah certainly surpasseed yours and mine. Indeed, it is possible that I am not even an Am Ha’aretz – if I would learn by listening to shiurim, rebbeim, internet discussions (you can even get halacha l’maaseh from the latter). Never mind that the only option that I spelled out was that the person should know kol hatorah kula ba’al peh.
Otherwise, I plainly disagree with what you said. The person should be allowed to use a sefer anyway. The person should be taught the proper behavior, but the correct solution would not to ban them. But thank you for your analysis; I like to appear as a deep person.August 13, 2008 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #623033Matisyohu28Member
squeak actually, reb chaim brisker said ‘a nebach an apikores is poich an apikores’ – if you dont know enough to know what we bvelieve in, you’re an apikores by definition and default, albeit a nebach one. every yid has the responsibility to learn..and without learning, your emunah wont be strong, nor will your middos. torah is the spiritual nourishment for all of us, and without learning it, we’re nothing.
everyone has their tachlis though, and i am speaking about learning lefi one’s ability – notg to cv’s put down someone who simply cannot learn well becaue of the brain g-d gave him.August 15, 2008 8:48 pm at 8:48 pm #623034ChachamParticipant
the mishnas reb aharon says it is gezel zman and bitul torah…….
also what is worse is when people take a sefer that says muter b`mikomah and leave it IN ANOTHER BAISmedrash somewhere else and everybody thinks that is the place for it AND YOU LOST YOUR SEFERAugust 16, 2008 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #623035yeruchemMember
squeak, someone who never cracks a sefer may not be an apikoires, but one who b’shita never cracks a sefer is a mumar l’davar achas (the chiyuv of v’higisa), which chazal calll an apikoires.August 17, 2008 5:20 am at 5:20 am #623036postsemgirlMember
I think the answer to the question is the upringing of the men/buchrim. My father and brother put away seforim when they are finished using them. If people feel that everyone is there to clean up after themselves then this is what happens. It’s not only with seforim. the same people who don’t put away seforim probably don’t throw their plate out after supper.August 17, 2008 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #623037Matisyohu28Member
chacham, thanks for pointing that outAugust 18, 2008 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #623038
Matisyohu28, actually reb chaim brisker is quoted as saying “nebach an am ha’aretz is fohrt an am ha’aretz”. A later rav is attributed with your quote, except that he said “oich” instead of “poich”. This was said regarding holocaust survivors, so please don’t make up your own interpretations.
And though we are taught that without learning you can’t have emunah, it is simply not true when applied (in retrospect) to the many pashuteh yidden of yesteryear. I’m not saying that it is still possible to be like them today (especially since the reasons they never were able to learn do not apply to us in our ‘privileged’ times) but try to keep in mind that there was a time when even good Jews were not enclosed in 4 walls for their entire life. The Lithuanian derech is only recently the prevelant one.October 19, 2008 2:52 am at 2:52 am #623039reenmasheenMember
its very simple batei midrshim and batei kenaisyos should just put signs up on the shelves to please remember to put the sefarim back on the shelves when you are finished using themOctober 26, 2008 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #623040REALISTMember
One thing is worse than not putting the sefer back.
And it leads to much more bittul Torah.
That is returning it to the wrong place on the shelves!
Because nobody looks there for it.
You will look on tables or shtenders but cannot start checking all the shelves.
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