September 29, 2022 12:41 pm at 12:41 pm #2128389
Am I the only one who notes the significance of today?
81 years ago, today and tomorrow, the Nazi German occupying terrorists murdered over 33k Jews in Babyn Yar. There are people who still remember when it happened alive today, a fact which must be sunk in.
Today or tomorrow, Putin plans on annexing Ukrainian territory. With occupation and annexation generally comes genocide, something which has already began in Ukraine (among other occupied countries).
P.S. To all the Holocaust deniers on here who deny the attempted bombing of the Babyn Yar memorial, Putin has no love for you either.September 29, 2022 1:45 pm at 1:45 pm #2128447
Putin is a madman; the Ukrainians are Neo-Nazis. They are made for each other. Let them continue shooting each other up while the rest of the world stays away from those Slavs.
“the Nazi German occupying terrorists murdered over 33k Jews in Babyn Yar.”
… With the very eager help of the Nazi’s Ukrainian collaborators.
Ukraine is the land of Tach V’Tat. Ukraine TODAY still celebrates the Ukrainian leader who mass murdered the Yidden in Tach V’Tat.September 29, 2022 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #2128459
Glad you admit Putin is a madman. But it wasn’t Ukraine that bombed the Shoah memorial in Babyn Yar.
Stop thinking that historical genocide (which by the way, as per your logic, Ukrainians are Soviet citizens, hence Russian) justifies a conflict.
Putin’s terrorism shall not go unpunished. May he meet his Maker soon.September 29, 2022 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #21284852scentsParticipant
Apparently, the world leaders are not listening to your advice, so the situation is escalating with the threat of Russia going nuclear.September 29, 2022 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #2128553
“Glad you admit Putin is a madman.”
Glad you don’t deny the Ukrainians are Neo-Nazis.
“But it wasn’t Ukraine that bombed the Shoah memorial in Babyn Yar.”
Who cares about a “memorial”; lives are much more important. And no one targeted the memorial specifically.
“Stop thinking that historical genocide”
Yeah, what’s “historical genocide” when we need our Volkswagen, BMWs and Mercedes from our great and lovely German friends.
” (which by the way, as per your logic, Ukrainians are Soviet citizens, hence Russian)”
That’s not logic; that’s illogical. That akin to saying “Texans are Americans, hence New Yorkers.” Ukrainians aren’t Russian any more than Lithuanians are, which was also part of the Soviet Union.
“Putin’s terrorism shall not go unpunished. May he meet his Maker soon.”
Hey, here’s something we agree on.
May he meet his maker soon together with his Ukrainians Nazi adversaries.
“Apparently, the world leaders are not listening to your advice,”
Apparently not. When have world leaders ever been wise?
“so the situation is escalating with the threat of Russia going nuclear.”
You are correct again.September 29, 2022 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #2128560
Those who daven avinu malkeinu and are not full tzadikim are hoping that Hashem will remember their good intentions this week and forget aveiros “long time ago”, like last month. So they should think twice before remembering events hundreds years ago to condemn people who live under bombs and fight a clear aggressor.September 29, 2022 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #2128568
When this war started, a lot of people were shocked and I heard several Rabonim commenting about events and Jews who are caught into that in general. At this point, this is 2nd page of the papers, but the world, and Yidden there, are still affected. There are now Yidden in Ukraine under bombs and confronting a winter with possible electricity and heat out, there are Yidden on both sides taken to the army (as there were Yidden in opposing armies in WWI), and Yidden driven away from Ukraine and running away from Russian army …
I did not see much of religious response anywhere in regular times or during yomim naroyim. Should we be saying some extra misheberachs or tehilim? Is anything happening anywhere?
What is the appropriate way? What were Jews doing during WW2? WW1? Russian revolution? pogroms?
I know that there were suggestion of a fast day during early Nazis and some did not like the idea because the suffering Jews are such that they would not fast and daven themselves (of course, we know others came into danger pretty soon). Also, Chofetz Chaim was calling for a worldwide fast for the Jews in Russia during their revolution/civil war…September 30, 2022 9:33 am at 9:33 am #2128636akupermaParticipant
In the past a country could simply conquer territory and annex it, but that is no longer considered acceptable behavior, hence the need to stage a referendum. International law in the 21st century requires the consent of the governed, even if that consent is obtained at gunpoint through a fraudulent election.
P.S. I wouldn’t put too much weight in reports about Russia hitting any specific target, as there is growing evidence suggesting the Russia military is incapable of aiming at a given target and then hitting the target.September 30, 2022 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #2128680
Just loving the way @UJM takes me out of context, a few words at a time. Grammar and sentence structure are key to proper understanding.
Just a comment; pro-Russia folks such as yourself believe that Russia’s previous control of Ukraine justifies current proposed control. Hence your Texan/New Yorker analogy is flawed.September 30, 2022 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #2128685
Your grammar and sentence structure aren’t using proper English syntax. I responded to the exact points you wrote. Your regret about making illogical statements notwithstanding, after your logical flaws were pointed out.
There’s no pro-Russian folks here. The only pro-Russians were the American Left in the Democrat Party while Russia was Communist. Once communism went out the window in Russia, the Democrats lost their appetite to support Russia. The Far Left held out a little longer until Hillary Clinton supported the coup de’tat in 2014 against the democratically elected government of Ukraine, which triggered Russia. But acknowledging that Russia has some points about Ukraine being strongly pro-Nazi, doesn’t negate the fact that Putin is a madman, as I pointed out earlier above, and that Russia itself is a backwards country.
Also note that Crimea specifically was never Ukrainian until the Ukrainian Dictator of the Soviet Union unilaterally and unconstitutionally transferred it on paper away from Russia into Ukraine in 1954.October 1, 2022 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #2128795
Ujm, by your convoluted logic, Moscovia should be part of Kievan Rus, not other way around, and Crimea should go back to Turkey/Brits/Karaites. Maybe this is a great compromise that can stop the bloodshed: Russia joining Ukraine? It will have the territory Russians want and government Ukrainian have. At next election, Putin can run against Zelenskyy.October 2, 2022 12:12 am at 12:12 am #2128804
Why should Crimea go back to Ukraine? It’s been part of Russia since 2014. You want to take it away?October 2, 2022 12:13 am at 12:13 am #2128812
The Kievan Rus is Russia. After the Mongols invaded it, the capital changed from Kiev to Moscow once the Russians regained the land.October 2, 2022 3:28 am at 3:28 am #2128840lechoirehParticipant
Raboisai! This is bitul torah!! It’s aseres yemei teshuva. Go daven, learn, say tehilim.October 2, 2022 7:59 pm at 7:59 pm #2128997
> This is bitul torah!!
Adaraba, we are saving kedusha of the Torah. You can meet here Yidden, who are either heartless or brainless or naive or corrupted to the degree that they find ways to praise murderers and murderous regimes. So, you just want to give them a patch reminding them to go back to Gemora and hope that they’ll understand halochos and aggados?! I think we are protecting the honor of Abaye and Rava fromOctober 3, 2022 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #2129234KuvultParticipant
Your entire history of Yidden in Europe is skewed by the fantasy you want it to be.
I don’t blame about tach vtat as most Jews never learned the true story.
If you knew what really went on during that period you’d see things differently & understand why they still celebrate him.October 3, 2022 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #2129261
Kuvult: Pray tell and explain how you see Bogdan Chmielnicki yemach shemo vzichro, the Ukrainian Adolf Hitler ym’s, as a hero and how you justify his mass murdering Yidden. And explain how you justify today’s Ukrainians putting up statues of Chmielnicki all over Ukrainiane and honoring and celebrating this mass murderer, ethnic cleanser of your ancestors.
Do you also defend the masses of Ukrainians, including average citizens in Ukraine, who collaborated with the Nazis in liquidating Ukraine of its Jewish population into mass graves the Jews were shot into en masse?October 3, 2022 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #2129285
Today’s Ukrainians, including their modern day Presidents and leaders, also honor and celebrate with statues and public holidays, Ukrainian Nazis such as Stepan Bandera, who was Hitler’s Ukrainian man responsible for mass murdering Yidden in Ukraine. Just a decade ago Ukraine’s President established a holiday in honor of this mass murderer.October 3, 2022 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #2129289
UJM is referrring to Viktor Yanukovych, a Putin puppet who was their President a decade ago. Nice!October 3, 2022 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #2129305mdd1Participant
Chiefshmerel, there is also a statue of Symyon Petlura in Kiev. His army did a repeat of the Tach ve’Tat in 1918-1920.October 3, 2022 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #2129309
chiefshmerel: Wrong! It was the anti-Russian Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko who named Bandera a “Hero of Ukraine,”. The Russians are the ones who executed Bandera.
In late 2006, the Lviv, Ukraine city administration announced the transference of the tombs of Stepan Bandera, Andriy Melnyk, Yevhen Konovalets and other key Ukrainian Nazi collaborators to a new area of Lychakiv Cemetery honoring them.
In October 2007, the city of Lviv erected a statue dedicated to Bandera. In October 2007, the Lviv City Council adopted a resolution establishing the Award of Stepan Bandera.
In January 2009, his 100th birthday was celebrated in several Ukrainian centres and Ukraine officially issued a postage stamp with his portrait was issued to honor him. In January 2014, Bandera’s 105th birthday was celebrated by a torchlight procession of 15,000 people in the centre of Kyiv and thousands more rallied near his statue in Lviv.
In 2018, the Ukrainian Parliament designated Bandera’s birthday as a national holiday.October 3, 2022 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #2129310
ujm, when you visit a sick person, do you mention to him that his sickness is due to his aveiros and his fathers’ aveiros, or do you wish him refuah shleima? You have here millions of people being bombarded, gone into exile, forced into Russian army and into participation in sham elections, and you are talking about Khmelnitsky. Why not talk about Russian czars who supported Khmelnitsky, organized pogroms, etc, then communists who killed off or sent to exile all religious Jews – and now has a President who bombs these people for the explicit goal of restoring the “glory” of both Czars and USSR.
If you happen to be in a shul this week, please listen to the story of Yona and kikayon …October 3, 2022 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #2129313
And speaking of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, he was duly elected President of Ukraine by a democratic majority of Ukrainian voters. And the anti-Russians, supported by the Obama Administration and specifically Secretary of State Clinton, supported and abetted the violent coup de’tat that overthrew the elected President.October 3, 2022 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #2129341
UJM, who was the President of Ukraine from 2010-2014?
Was Zelenskyy NOT elected by a majority of Ukrainian voters? Criticize Yanukovych’s impeachment all you want; he was not the successor. Poroshenko was.October 3, 2022 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #2129349
ujm, I repeatedly asked you to bring your sharp judgment of the Russian side and their history.October 3, 2022 10:37 pm at 10:37 pm #2129350
When asked why non Jews should care about antisemitism, Rabbi Jonathan Sacks ZTL answered that what starts with Jews never ends with Jews.
This applies in all countries, from the USA to Ukraine to Germany and beyond. Nationalists are never our friends. I do not support Ukrainian nationalism; I support Ukrainian independence. Learn the difference, folks.October 3, 2022 10:37 pm at 10:37 pm #2129348
And speaking of Bandera, do you know of him in any context EXCEPT Jews? He had many faults, and I’m not defending him. But coming from someone who is against cancel culture, shouldn’t UJM be all for the right to promote him as a free speech issue?October 4, 2022 12:12 am at 12:12 am #2129365
Chmielnicki and Bandera were Hitlers. Do not tell me the they or that Hitler had “good points” to celebrate, aside from their side -job of mass murdering Jews.
Are you okay with putting up statues of Adolf Hitler and making holidays for his birthday and issuing postage stamps and coins in his honor to commemorate Hitler being a great orator and restoring pride to the German people after WWII? Nothing to do with Hitler’s killing machines; only celebrating his “good things”.
That’s what you’re saying about Chmielnicki and Bandera; that we can’t do “cancel culture” or violate free speech honoring Hitler, Chmielnicki and Bandera.
Ukraine is indefensible. They still honor these mass murderers today.October 4, 2022 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #2129441
Never did I express support for Bandera or Khmelnitsky.
The banality of evil should be noted.October 4, 2022 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #2129486
You defended the Ukrainians who celebrate and honor Bandera and Khmelnitsky with statues throughout the country, national holidays in their honor, putting them on Ukrainian postage stamps, having celebrations and marches in their honor, Ukrainian presidents awarding them Hero Of Ukraine ceremonies and the masses of Ukrainian citizens considering these mass murderers to be national heroes.October 6, 2022 7:12 am at 7:12 am #2129627
I expressed support for Ukrainian independence. Not Ukrainian nationalism.
Much like in America, you need to learn the difference.
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