June 10, 2012 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #603730moreMember
what does the name Yoshka mean?June 10, 2012 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #884517
JesusJune 10, 2012 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #884518Doodle-Man™Member
JesusJune 11, 2012 12:15 am at 12:15 am #884519ohr chodeshMember
What does “pundrik” mean?June 11, 2012 12:47 am at 12:47 am #884520moreMember
why do we refer to him as Yoshka?June 11, 2012 12:51 am at 12:51 am #884521
It’s a Yiddish nickname, like Miritchka for Miriam or Shmelke for Shmuel. Yoshke is for Yeshu or Yeshua; Jesus’s Hebrew name.June 11, 2012 12:55 am at 12:55 am #884522Doodle-Man™Member
I believe that’s his Hebrew name.June 11, 2012 12:56 am at 12:56 am #884523HaLeiViParticipant
ohr, it means Ben Pondira.June 11, 2012 1:04 am at 1:04 am #884524ohr chodeshMember
Who was Pondira?June 11, 2012 1:04 am at 1:04 am #884525OneOfManyParticipant
He Who Must Not Be Named.June 11, 2012 1:20 am at 1:20 am #884526zaidy78Participant
I recently heard from someone that Chazal of his time refered to him as “YaiShu” for the roshei teivos od “Yimach Shimo V’Zichro”.
They were so successful in their campaign that NOONE knows his real name just Yaishu or the English variation of it!June 11, 2012 1:48 am at 1:48 am #884527
Pondira was the man who fathered him. Miriam’s husband was away at the time.
We call him by his fathers name, to remind all that he did have a father.June 11, 2012 2:36 am at 2:36 am #884528
OneOfMany – Thanks but no, we are not the same person.June 11, 2012 2:50 am at 2:50 am #884529OneOfManyParticipant
Heh heh, couldn’t resist. ^_^June 11, 2012 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #884530oomisParticipant
I think that calling him yoshkeh lends a level of chashivus to his name, that should not be given. We do not say HASHEM’S name. Jesus was not a Divinity, and his name should be treated accordingly.June 11, 2012 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #884531
Zaidy: It could be that was a Remez, but Yeishu is also short for Yeshua, which was most likely his real name. Also, the Gemara refers to him as Oso Ha’ish (maybe, this is all not so cleay) and not as Yeshu (though whether that’s the original or a self-censored version we can’t say). I think, though, the earliest Jewish references to him as Yeishu are from the Geonim/Rishonim, well after the name “Jesus” was well known.June 12, 2012 9:20 am at 9:20 am #884532HaLeiViParticipant
Sam2, why’d you say that? We find often in Gemara statements about Talmidei Yeishu Hanotzri. I would say the other way around — calling him Oyso Ha’ish started later, when we had to start avoiding the censors.
Oomis, the Halacha is that we are not supposed to mention the name of an Avoda Zara, Lo Yishoma Al Picha. That is what we are doing by not mentioning his name. If you may not eat something it can be because it is Kodshim or Tamei. Same here.June 12, 2012 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #884533
HaLeiVi: Really? You can find me a Gemara that talks about Talmidei Yeishu Hanotzri? Rishonim, for sure. If you have a Gemara that says it please show it to me. I’d love to see it.June 12, 2012 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #884534
There yakov Talmud yeshu. I cannot recall exactly where it is. He says an Halacha the Gemara paskens like him, however it’s only because of a different sevara.
I can look it up at night.June 12, 2012 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #884535
the Halacha is that we are not supposed to mention the name of an Avoda Zara, Lo Yishoma Al Picha. That is what we are doing by not mentioning his name.
The halacha does not apply to Jesus.June 13, 2012 3:20 am at 3:20 am #884536oomisParticipant
I did not think he was considered an A”Z. Christianity per se is not A”Z. Catholicism, might be, as they worship a trinity. Is all Christianity under the umbrella of A”Z? And if we call him by another name, then that has become his name, as far as we are concerned. We do pronounce the names of various idols that were worshipped, when reading of them in Tanach, so where does this halacha come into application?June 13, 2012 3:29 am at 3:29 am #884537
Yitay: I was told that the Rambam in the Moreh says that the names Jesus and Mohammed are Assur to say, but I couldn’t find where.June 13, 2012 3:35 am at 3:35 am #884538shmoelMember
The Noda B’Yehuda says that shituf is avoda zora.June 13, 2012 4:02 am at 4:02 am #884539
Sam – I find that hard to believe.June 13, 2012 4:06 am at 4:06 am #884540YW Moderator-42Moderator
Oomis, a name written in Tanach we are allowed to say.June 13, 2012 4:08 am at 4:08 am #884541YW Moderator-42Moderator
“Miriam’s husband was away at the time”
J****h?June 13, 2012 5:47 am at 5:47 am #884543hello99Participant
oomis: “Christianity per se is not A”Z. Catholicism, might be, as they worship a trinity”
that is largely a misconception. Most Protestants are also Triniatrian.June 13, 2012 11:33 am at 11:33 am #884544g73Member
Sam2 is correct. Having done a Bar Ilan search for ??? ?????? in all bavli, yerushalmi and midrash – I found the term mentioned once in the standard edition of vilna shas (??????? ?? ??). There are 2 more times he is mentioned (using that name, ???? ???? is mentioned 9 other times) in the per-censored edition (????? ?? ?? & ??????? ?? ??).
Rashi and the Ritva, however, do mention ?????? ??? ?????? a few times.July 12, 2012 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #884545
Yakov Min’ah, Talmid Yeshu has been removed.
The Yavetz uses this gemara to verify in which time period Yushke lived.
Tosfos discusses if all Yakov Min’as are this same person or not.
When I checked the Gemara in Chulin that brings Yakov Min’ah (I cannot recall the exact daf now) He challenges Rava with a question, to which Rava responds “For [People like] you the Passuk says..” I think that the way Rava answered him sits well if this Yakov Min’ah is the same one as in AZ (which was Yeshu Hanotzri’s talmud).
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