Question About Punishment After Death

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  • #611649
    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Why is everyone so worried about Gehennom? So it’s uncomfortable, but it’s a cleansing process. Isn’t kareis much worse?

    #1001423
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The fact that kareis is worse doesn’t make gehennom any better.

    #1001424
    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    But people are always asking about and being worried about Gehenneom.

    #1001425
    Sam2
    Participant

    Torah: It’s really hard to get Kareis. For almost everyone Frum, Kareis isn’t really a worry.

    #1001426

    The Radzyner writes: If someone could choose between having an easy life with Gehenom at the end, or a life of suffering, and Gehenom lessened one tiny degree, he would choose to suffer all his days on this earth rather than the full punishment in the next world.

    #1001427
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Sam, I was going to say that, but at least you let me explain.

    Kareis is only for the more chomur issurim, and only if they are violated intentionally.

    Gehinnom is even for (relatively) slight, and/or unintentional infractions.

    #1001428
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    I know, what’s the big deal with tying your tooth to the door? It’s a necessary process. Also, a kidney transplant without anesthesia is worse.

    #1001429
    fkelly
    Member

    What is Kareis? People say it’s dying young or no olam haba. Is it either one? Or a machlokes? Or both?

    #1001430
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    All three. Young, without children, Olam Habaless.

    There are different types of Kares. There is Kares, Ariri, Misa Bidei Shamayim, and double Kares.

    #1001431
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I know, what’s the big deal with tying your tooth to the door? It’s a necessary process. Also, a kidney transplant without anesthesia is worse.

    She already explained that she wasn’t saying gehenom is pleasant, just wondering why it’s more talked about than kareis.

    #1001432
    oomis
    Participant

    I don’t know about you, but these topics are usually not on my Top Ten Hit List of Conversation. You all must have some very interesting table discussions…

    #1001433
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I would have to say that the tiny bit of information I have about punishment after death is a very large part of my decision making on a daily basis.

    #1001434
    Redleg
    Participant

    Here’s another question: The mesorah is that, for all except the most irredeemable reshaim, the neshama is only Gehinnom for 11 months. Is there duration in Gehinnom? Can an eternal neshama experience the passage of time. For that matter, is there time in Gehinnom?

    #1001435
    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Redleg: If that’s because of Kaddish, perhaps it feels eternal to the neshama, but stops after 11 earthly months.

    #1001436

    if i get exact punishment for what i did, then its totally worth it! ill do whatever i want, and my neshama will burn. what do i care?

    How soon would you like to find out?

    #1001438
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    PM, exact punishment doesn’t mean exact pain to balance the pleasure you received for the aveirah; it means precicely what you deserve, which might be significantly more.

    #1001439
    emunah613
    Member

    I have heard it said that the real gehinom is experiencing the pain that your actions caused another person. If you were a really bad person with an evil tongue that could be a very long time in gehinnom!

    #1001441
    the-art-of-moi
    Participant

    Rabbi Wallerstein has some terrifying shiurim on this topic… Gehinnom is infinitely worse than anything anyone here could imagine. Sneak peek- there’s a gehinnom of burning cold ice that is considered worse than the fire one. Gehinnom isn’t just about physical pain, like someone here mentioned- its more spiritual pain than anything else. Oh, and heres the worst part (in my opinion)- whatever limbs you used to do aveiros are swollen in a very obvious way so that everyone can see it. The shame must be indescribable!Imagine walking around in front of everyone and them knowing every sin that you’ve ever done! And those limbs are painful too. Also, you can be hung by the limbs that you used for aveiros. BTW, about the swollen limbs- if you had a connection with Hashem then you get something to cover your swollen body with so that others cant see it. Whatever, theres a lot more tosay on this topic but I’ll be nice and spare you the gory details. Suffice it to say- gehinnom is something you should really be concerned about.

    #1001442
    emunah613
    Member

    Obviously there is no body in Gehinnom and everything is spiritual.We have no limbs in the next world, we are all neshomos. And quite honestly, we do not know of anyone who has ever gone there and come back to report what it is. Thus I have only the tools I have been given in this world to work with. I am a parent and I know how deeply I love my kids and that I would never hurt them. However in order to be mechanech them I have punished them. I am a mere human being. Therefore I believe that Hashem’s love for me is infinitely greater than anything that I can comprehend and that whatever is in store for me is due to Hashem’s great love for me. I try not to anger Hashem and to sincerely repent when I have done something wrong. . When I have a punishment from Hashem, I have emunah that it is exactly for my personal benefit. And if I have not done a teshuva gemura before my death, then wherever I am sent to to complete that is also for my benefit. I think we need to remember that Hashem loves us so much! Living a life of fear of gehinnom is not true Yiras HaShem. Yiras Hashem to me is fear of disappointing our Father, Our King that we failed to follow the Torah’s instructions.

    #1001444
    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    I’m still confused. I remember hearing that a person can get kareis for not having kibud av va’eim. Is this correct?

    Also, it can feel infinite to the neshama, and be only 11 earthly months.

    #1001445
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I don’t believe so. The reward for kibud av v’em is arichus yomim, but the converse is not kareis. IIRC, the only two mitzvos aseh for which one vcan get kareis (for not performing them) are milah and korbon Pesach.

    #1001446
    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    the-art-of-moi: I liked the way Rabbi Akiva Tatz described it much better. Seems much more realistic than what you’re saying… I don’t remember exactly but in my own words it’s like when you find out you did something stupid and feel like banging your head in the wall repetitively. The truth of the Torah becomes obvious, and you feel like “banging your head in the wall” forever for every time you didn’t follow it. Except there’s no wall or a closet to hide in.

    #1001447
    Lost1970
    Member

    I have little fear of Gehennom — I accept it. But I do fear eternal Gehennom. Thus I must not commit many sins considered “normal” by Reform and Conservative Jews.

    #1001448
    the-art-of-moi
    Participant

    Gamanit, that does sound better… Ok, you’ve just convinced me to buy Rabbi Tatz’s book “The Thinking Jewish Teens Guide ToLife” or something like that.

    #1001449
    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Just to clarify: One does not get kareis for not having perfect kibbud av vaaim?

    #1001450
    WIY
    Member

    Torah

    No. Positive. Check first mishna in kerisos to see what is chayyiv kareis. However I did hearthat any pain one causes their parents Hashem will pay back in kind via their their own children so if you gave your parents a run for their money prepare to have the the same.

    #1001452
    oyyoyyoy
    Participant

    beginning of mishpatim it says if someone hits his parents hes chayiv misah (i think, too lazy to check)

    #1001453
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    PM, would you apply tat same logic to give enjoyment to your stomach while having your head whacked?

    #1001454
    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    WIY: Thank you.

    #1001455
    WIY
    Member

    Torah

    Youre welcome.

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