Question for Frum Jews who are anti Trump

As a New Yorker I have been aware of Trump and his antics for over 30 years as a serial liar and a serial adulterer. Aside from lying about the height of his buildings, filing a false insurance claim for 9/11 damage that never occurred at his Wall Street building, lying about working at the Trade Center site after 9/11 Trump had a long reputation for not paying bills of his contractors.
His infatuation with his daughter and remarks about dating her were troublesome as well as the remark he made to a girl at Trump Plaza that when she was older he could date her.
Aside from his character flaws he has business interests in foreign countries and discussions about a Trump building in Moscow continued after the election. I can go on and on.

Reb E, YD, it seems from your replies that you simply hate trump because he’s an egomaniac, a narcissist ect…which I completely agree on. Now talk policy. Is there something about paying 2.40 for a galleon of gas that you don’t like? Do you generally prefer for children to be taught CRT and “gender” theory? Do you like it now that everyday items cost around 7% more than a year ago? Or that we have an unprecedent amount of illegals crossing the border? Or that we stranded Americans in Afghanistan and left the Taliban boatloads of military equipment? Or that Biden just week basically invited Putin to invade Ukraine? Final question: Would you vote for DeSantis, or even say theoretically Glen Youngkin in a matchup vs Biden? And why not?

What Yaakov Doe said. Anyone who has lived in NY and paid even a modicum of attention to this clown’s antics would feel the same way. The man is a joke. A gross, dangerous, cruel joke.

I like to hope that the GOP could somehow prevent the childish, narcissist, bleach injector from becoming the party’s candidate. Biden is plainly a disaster, and Trump is a different kind of disaster. Hashem yerachem.

Nothing he ever did will compare to his 15% corporate tax cut, which amounted to about 2 trillion – and simultaneously the deficit grew by more than that amount. He literally took money out of the pockets of every American and gave it to the wealthiest. For this he was created

Even if trump isn’t the nicest guy, and even if he cheated and stole (which I don’t believe he did), what he has done for the frum yidden and will do when he is reelected, comes before his own middos. He has been the best president for the jews ever since ronald reagon. You can’t deny that.

The people (not all frum) have spoken:
In a poll released this AM by Marquette Univ Surveys (which was one of the few that acurately predicted the strong Trump 2016 showing), 43 percent of adults nationwide said they would support Biden if the 2024 presidential election were held today versus only 33 percent who would vote for Trump in a one-on-one match-up.
Sixteen percent said they would choose a different candidate, while 6 percent said they would not vote. In a hypothetical 1:1 race against DeSantis, however, Biden polls slightly better: 41 percent of adults nationwide said they would throw their support behind Biden, while 33 percent would support DeSantis.

Biden is worse than Trump. By this, I am not praising Biden. Note that I am basically a neo-con on national security, a tea-partier on economic policy and a libertarian on civil liberties.

1. Trump’s isolationism. Surrendering in Afghanistan was his idea, and Biden was more than happy to follow through. What made America great was its willingness to defend freedom and democracy abroad. An interesting comment was that the Mexican War was the last time the United States fought overseas for its own economic interests. Like it or not, the non-cons are right. The Democrats “big lie” is that the United States has never fought for the freedom of others, and the best thing the US can do is not to meddle in the affairs of other. If we has a president who wanted to make America great again, we would never have stabbed Afghanistan in the back, and wouldn’t be stabbing Ukraine in the back (and in the long run, such policies failed, since tolerating tyranny encourages more tyranny and the longer we wait, the bigger the mess will be).

2. Trump supports “big government” and has always been fiscally irresponsible. Biden’s worse. At this point the Democrats appear to be intoxicated, and the Republican inebriated.

3. The United States needs immigration. The “boomers” (frum Yidden, and their children, excepted) failed miserably at producing children. Either we shrink our economy (i.e. get poorer) to match our labor force, or we need to import labor. We should not be chasing away Hispanic (meaning primarily indigenous Americans with a touch of Spanish ancestry) immigrants who are intending to be hard working and law abiding Americans. We need them. The supply chain disruptions are due to a shrinking workforce.

Syag: Not sure what statistics you are referencing….I don’t believe ANY of these polls given the bias of pollsters, self-selection of respondents, failure to include “wireless” users in certain polling pools, and a gazillion other factors. Just funny to find any poll showing results so contrary to all the current polls with Biden’s popularity in the tank….

“frum Jews who are anti Trump”
Since when do frum Jews talk about a mere mortal (and that’s being kind to him) ?
Does frumkeit have anything to do with politics? Especially non-Jewish politics. It should not !

White supremacist hate Jews as well as blacks who are not from the Arian race. sticka kehodoa, when Trump does not speak out against them, he gives them the impression that he agrees with them and strength to strive.

Honestly- I was hoping Trump wouldn’t win in 2016. His disgusting personality and lies made me think that it’s not possible for him to be good for the USA. I was BH wrong. I still hate his personality but I agree with (almost) all his policies.
And for the record- cutting taxes on rich- causes them to hire more workers and increase their business. Would you like Amazon to disappear because they pay too much taxes? I know people that say “I don’t want to get a raise because then I lose my programs and pay more taxes, I land up poorer.”
That’s not how we build a rich, economically strong country. We cut taxes- allowing more people to see the fruits of their hard work, so that they grow their company, hire more workers- more people have jobs, they get rich and it’s a great cycle.
Why should someone that works hard and gets rich give 50% of their paycheck to people who chose to sit home and chill while making unemployment?
and
akuperma- yeah, we need LEGAL immigrants. I’m still waiting for Biden to lower the amount of legal immigrants allowed in this country.
We need a good, legal process of getting immigrants into this country.
The way it’s happening now is TERRIBLE.

ejm> have learned there are more libs on this site than I thought.

I think there is less than a minyan so far, so not a community.

It looks like opinions vary as to personality, and media-propagated TDS is endemic, so that even the poasters with high vaccine of derech eretz still get infected. Still, if you look simply at policies and achievements, as amom says, there is not much that a moderate conservative should be upset about.

The only difference between how Trump and other R- politicians are treated: they are all called names, just in his case, some might actually apply. Maybe a self-fulfilling prophecy – you called R- villains, so you get one! Al tiftach pe l’satan.

Some other interesting factoids in recent polls of likely voters….even among those who “strongly support” or “admire’ the 45 President, the majority hope he doesn’t run again in 2024 for two basic reasons. First, simple concern that his behavior/actions/personality will “trump” (excuse the pun) his policies. Second, there are now “Trump light” options that can achieve those policies and outcoimes without all the drama and baggage. On the other side are the die-hard Trumpkops/MAGAs who believe that our political system has been forever transformed so the only way to achieve change is with a candidate who exudes all that drama and baggage .

AAQ: I suspect the majority of 2020 Trump voters will stay with him in the 2024 primaries, absent some truly unforeseeable revelations (and even then, most Trumpkopfs will just dismiss it as either another Russia hoax or “Trump being Tump”). I wish I could see a Dem that could both force Biden out of another run in 2024 and defeat Trump but that too seems unlikely given the growing Democratic propensity to form circular firing squads. Thus, I’m probably going to show up on Eastern Parkway waving a yellow flag demanding that Moishiach come so we don’t have to go through another Presidential election cycle. .

EJMRBro, you wrote “I have thrown the proverbial grenade into this chat and have learned there are more libs on this site than I thought.

Maybe the next poast should be about how many of you support toeiva.”

Classic example of the sophisticated thinking that abounds here — are those the only alternatives?

EMJRBro, I guess it’s funny to yank everyone’s chains, but it actually would be positive for people to explain their non-conformist opinions, as in the never-Trump people, because maybe, just maybe, we might learn something from comparing opinions.

Personally, as a Torah-Jew, I am completely repulsed by Trump’s personality, pleased by many of his policies – esp towards Israel – and still so weirded out by the lionizing of him by the velt. We haven’t show so much enthusiasm for any politician in recorded history. Why did we pick someone so personally objectionable?

I wish wish wish someone who actually has a brain AND conservative values AND normal kiddos would run a successful campaign, but I’m afraid that is not in the cards.

I reject both of your options. When it came to Hilary and Trump, I couldn’t vote for either. Last round, I held my nose and preferred Trump, but his big diatribe against Netanyahu was no surprise to me — Trump really has no values besides himself, so like a baby he tantrums… He could turn on us as fast as he supported us, as the spirit moves him.

If it’s Trump vs Biden, I will have to abstain again.

I think we all need to simply look upwards – that is the takeaway. Ein Od Milvado.

Why are so many frum people busy with this nonsense?!?

BG7 > Personally, as a Torah-Jew, I am completely repulsed by Trump’s personality,

I understand where you are coming from, I am just wondering whether everything we hear is completely true. There are obvious political attacks, but then there are things that sound true and they still may not be. Some examples – a lot of stories on how he disregards experts and comes up with uninformed decisions. They sounds true. At the same time, we now know that he was persuaded not to follow – or at least delay – his “gut” decisions, such as withdraw from Afghanistan; we also now have current new CDC head saying that she is trying to change organization, so seems like Trump was correct at side-stepping them when necessary. He is also less polished and also often uses his directness to access voters. Obama/Netanyahu relationship was much worse than anything Trump ever said but it only came to surface several times. Just the fact that 6 years of investigations did not uncover anything inappropriate so far – in such a suspicious business as NY real estate … I have some unbiased info: actually watched Trump’s apprentice years ago with an eye on business decision-making, and found a lot to learn from that. All of that not to deny that he has personality flaws, but they need to be taken in the context and comparison to others.