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September 8, 2012 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #604810chocandpatienceMember
You wrote:
Interestingly, a major proof against the “600,000 people saw it” proof is the revisionist history movements of the 20th & 21st centuries (such as Stalinism, 1984, and the Charaidi community). Statements like “everyone in Europe was learned and wore black hats/straimels” prove how history can be twisted by an elite.
September 9, 2012 9:02 am at 9:02 am #895866MammeleParticipantI don’t think the reference to black hat/shtreimels/learned is true at all.
As religious as they come everyone is aware of this pre-war reality. And we have the photos to prove the levush, and the stories that reference young boys working, usually because the family depended on their income (at least according to said stories). And of course the typical am-haaretz jokes like biur chametz = beer is chametz.
September 9, 2012 9:51 am at 9:51 am #895867CuriosityParticipantI don’t know how anyone can claim there was a gap in the Torah’s being handed down. It’s simply not true. Even when the Torah gives a narrative of how a scroll was found in the Beis Hamikdash and Torah was reintroduced to Klal Yisrael, the Torah did not disappear from the Nevi’im and chachamim, only from the general populous. Also, there is a tradition supported by archaeological evidence that proves the Geulei Teiman were already in Yemen since before Bayis Rishon, or at least during the early beginning of its establishment. This predates this proposed gap in Torah history, and the Teimani Jews’ unbroken Mesorah that survives to this day is a clear proof of the validity of the oral tradition of national revelation predating Ezra Hasofer or the above mentioned era in history. The proposed disproof of national revelation just has no room to squeeze itself in to Jewish history, chronologically speaking, and therefore is invalid.
September 9, 2012 11:04 am at 11:04 am #895868NaftushMemberWhen a proof needs its own proof and slumps toward reduction to absurdity (600,000 witnesses wearing black hats, etc.), it’s in trouble. It ought to be enough to demonstrate the sustainability of Torah, its ability to sustain Am Yisrael, and its (distorted) adoption by other nations to satisfy all but the most dogmatic doubters of its underlying truth. As for accepting the truth of the details, we call it faith, don’t we?
September 9, 2012 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #895869HaLeiViParticipantActually, revisionist history is part of the proof. If someone would try to claim something about the past nobody can stop him but there will be many claims to the contrary. Nobody until recent generations questioned the veracity of the Torah’s account. We’ve had many groups of dissenters but none of them argued on the Torah’s account.
After a while it beccomes too late to start neww theories. Nobody can now claim the Civil War didn’t happen. Had someone made such a claim at that time there would be what to discuss. The same goes for holocaust deniers. If they would have found people with their view that had access to know the truth, that would make their claim less ridiculous.
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