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That’s a shtickel racist.
Many people have friendly relationships with Arabs, especially in Israel.
Sweeping racial generalizations like that almost justify anti-semitism. Why shouldn’t they too make unwarranted assertions based on our radical minority?
Why wouldn’t you want to buy a baby gift for a Muslim neighbor with whom you are on speaking terms with? Except for the unpleasantness in the Middle East, we get along fine with Muslims when we have to (cooperation in food matters such as opposing those who want ban kosher slaughter, tzinus issues, etc.).
Not only would buying them a gift be nice but its almost a must. FIrstly, you’d be showing nice manners towards neighborly peace and good relations. Its always important to show others honor and do whatever you can to win them over so you maintain peaceful living quarters.
Next, you must realize that Yaakov avinu’s gifts presented themselves BEFORE HIM on his way to Esav his evil brother. Gifts have a way of winning people’s hearts. It says in Orchot Tzaddikim that the magnanimus person is loved by everyone.
Giving is a very great attribute.
But by that baby outfit on sale. Never spend too much. Especially for a bnei Yishmael! lol
BTGuy -“So basically, your answer is to not be friendly since these muslims are just waiting to literally stab a Jew in the back, chas v’shalom.”
Again you twisted my words -it’s not the first time. You also caused some negative posts towards me. Why don’t you try reading My posts before you comment?
I posted -“I just thought of something -only treat them nice and buy them things if you truly have a relationship and know them well.”
I was issuing a warning, not condenming all Muslims.
Do you have a problem with this? Or should e/o believe the whole world & the Jewish Leftists that there is No problem with Muslims -the problem is Only the Jews?
This comes out everyday from the UN – they have absolutely nothing negative to say about all these Arab countries, even nowadays with all the atrocities coming out of Syria everyday.
They can only Condenm Israel day in & day out for building in the West Bank or defending themselves against the constant attack they get from Gaza!
Oomis – the opposite; if we stand to gain then it’s not chinam. Otherwise it is. “
We stand to gain? By showing we are normal, decent people? We are not falsely flattering them by giving a small gift on the occasion of their baby’s birth. Especially if other neighbors were to give gifts, we would look really cheap, which feeds right into the negative stereotype the world has of Jews. Since we must live with our neighbors, it behooves us to behave in a neighborly way. That includes giving small gifts on occasion.
On the other hand, regarding what I wrote, I was rethinking this over, and realized that you’d be sending an indirect message to them that you want to get closer and welcome a part of them into a part of your lives.
You dont give a nobody a gift, you know. so you have to realize you’re opening a door where there really shouldnt be one.
I dont have an answer for you. Oh except that now it just came to mind a halacha I once read that it said we are not allowed to give a gift to a goy. We have to make it like it was due to them for some service they provided or something to that effect. In other words its wrong to just hand over gift.
Oomis: The acquisition of good will is a meaningful gain – the same way that good will produced under false pretenses is geneivas da’as.
ARWSF -“In other words its wrong to just hand over gift.”
This was addressed above and e/o said – over here it wouldn’t be a problem!
always runs with scissors fast: They probably don’t perceive it as such. To them, it’s just another superficial gesture of politeness, no? 😛
I agree with OneOfMany. Moreover, Chazal were worried about Always’s concerns, and therefore they instituted certain specific takanos – i.e. bishul akum, pas akum, stam yeinam (partly), date beer in their houses, and maybe a couple more I’m forgetting. Apparently they believed that these decrees were enough to take care of any problems, so we do not need to institute our own.
yitayningwut, while doing supper dishes tonight i was contemplating what your name means. Care to explain?
Hi Health.
Seriously, why don’t you calm down a bit and realize statements that dont agree with you are not meant to be mean to you, so you dont have to respond as such.
I have to state here that you are the one twisting words of the English language in a sloppy way to defend your statement. It’s ok that people dont agree. It does not have to result in war.
I will quote you here even though I dont know how to use the italics. I will use quotation marks.
Your quote: “but as soon as you step out of their door they will literally “stab you in the back”!
So, in your above quote, you used the word “literally”. What dont you understand about that word? You did not say “rhetorically” or “figuratively”. You said “literally” which can only mean a warning for chas v’shalom an attempt at murder. No?
Where was this alleged twisting? Explain rather than fight.
Also, then you ramble on to the West Bank and Gaza. Well, I am not joining you in a new conversation on this topic. The point is: buying a baby gift for seemingly friendly arab neighbors.
Si o No? That’s all. Plain and simple. Responses are not an indictment of you personally.
You made a statement. Stand behind it. Modify it, if you have the courage, in light of other responses.
You are entitled to contribute that these friendly neighbors may “literally” stab Jews in the back. And I am entitled to have my view. Relax.
BT guy I am just curious if you went to University. You write like someone who is educated. Just my impression. Not trying to flatter you. Your use of english and in making points.
always runs with scissors fast: Lol, I had the same question. Turns out I was putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable. Also, try saying it r-e-a-l-l-y s-l-o-w-l-y. 🙂
BTGuy -“Seriously, why don’t you calm down a bit and realize statements that dont agree with you are not meant to be mean to you, so you dont have to respond as such.”
I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, but I do have a problem with you twisting my words and then you and everybody calling me out on something I didn’t say or mean!
“I have to state here that you are the one twisting words of the English language in a sloppy way to defend your statement. It’s ok that people dont agree. It does not have to result in war.”
Which words in the English language did I twist?
“Your quote: “but as soon as you step out of their door they will literally “stab you in the back”!
So, in your above quote, you used the word “literally”. What dont you understand about that word? You did not say “rhetorically” or “figuratively”. You said “literally” which can only mean a warning for chas v’shalom an attempt at murder. No?”
Exactly, why do even think I meant “rhetorically” or “figuratively”?
“Where was this alleged twisting? Explain rather than fight.”
I posted above -“I just thought of something -only treat them nice and buy them things if you truly have a relationship and know them well.”
And you said –“So basically, your answer is to not be friendly since these muslims are just waiting to literally stab a Jew in the back, chas v’shalom.”
Where in any of my statements did I say “not be friendly”? This is called twisting my words! I was issuing a warning, not condenming all Muslims.
“You are entitled to contribute that these friendly neighbors may “literally” stab Jews in the back. And I am entitled to have my view.”
You’re entitled to have any view you want but just Don’t twist my words -it’s not the first time. Why don’t you try reading My posts & thinking about them before you comment?
Hi Health.
You are wrong again.
(it’s so much easier this way) lol
Zzzz Zzzz Zzzz
always runs with scissors fast – If OneOfMany’s explanation didn’t do it (lol, thanks) here’s mine from another thread:
As for my name – it’s “you are tayna-ing what?” with a yeshivishe accent, a catch-phrase that can mean various things based on context, such as “Explain, please, what exactly are you talking about,” or “Aha… that’s what you mean!” or You mean to say – what??!!” etc. I hope this elongated explanation didn’t cause my yeshivishe colleagues to roll their eyes… 🙂
On the other hand, regarding what I wrote, I was rethinking this over, and realized that you’d be sending an indirect message to them that you want to get closer and welcome a part of them into a part of your lives”
I have given gifts to MANY people to whom I have no reason or wish to be closer in other than a professional way(my kids’ teachers or rebbeim, my mailman, the wait staff whom I tip, etc.) Gift does not = welcome into my personal life. It is ALWAYS a good policy to be on cordial terms with one’s neighbors, and that does not mean you must have them over for dinner.
Remember the story from the Holocaust of the frum yid whose life was saved because he always said good morning to his German (Nazi) neighbor. When that neighbor was sending people to the right or to the left, the yid recognized him and say good morning to him as he had always done. The nazi sent him to life and not to the gas chamber.
Oomis: Sorry, I just got to read your comment now. I agree fully, the fact that one does it out of necessity, for reasons you stated, makes it not “chinam”.
Hi always runs with scissors fast.
What do you mean I write “like” someone who is educated? lol Just kidding.
Also, I didnt think you would try to flatten me. You are way too nice to do that. : )
I did go to two universities. So hopefully I got something out of it.
Thank you for saying what you did. I found in order to not be misunderstood, I had to try to think before writing, although I have to admit I am a very reactive poster. I read and then react. When I go to edit, I do so in a hurry because sometimes my edit is not the version that ends up posting.
I also have a strong philosophical bend, and always have even at an early age. My degree is in sociology with two minors, psychology and philosophy. I feel comfortable in those areas of study so that is why I picked those subjects.
How about you?
BTGuy -” Hi Health.
You are wrong again.
(it’s so much easier this way) lol
Zzzz Zzzz Zzzz
Hi BT.
You are wrong again.
(it’s so much easier this way) lol
Yawn. (:p
well some college, and interest in maternal/child health.
oh yitaywut, you are “saying what”. I never thought of that.
lol for some reason most people don’t
Hi Health.
If you are copying me, then you are headed in the right direction. lol
Just kidding. Be you! I read what you post with great interest and it is thought
provoking.
: )
Sam2 you said “Shmoolik: That is what the Kitzur S”A brings down which is presumably actually the Minhag nowadays. How that came to be I don’t know as it is a very minority Shittah.” Excuse me, but the Kitzur says the opposite of what you said he wrote. Why did you write this?
No offense but why are you asking the question almost 6 years after the comment was written?
Apparently some editions have it as Sam2 said, my edition doesn’t.
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