questions about davening

Home Forums Bais Medrash questions about davening

Viewing 23 posts - 1 through 23 (of 23 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #600578

    mik5
    Participant

    I’m becoming a BT and am learning to daven with a minyan, so I have a few questions. If I am still on Ashrei when the chazzan begins Kaddish, do i answer amen? Do I pause and wait for him to finish?

    If I am reciting the silent Amidah when the chazzan begins the repetition, do I answer Amen, or do I just take my time and finish?

    If the chazzan begins kaddish while I’m still on tachanun, what do i do?

    Do you say ashrei standing up or sitting down?

    Please try to answer in English!!!

    #827769

    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    mik5…

    1) if you are on ashrai, yes you do answer amain.

    2) if you are saying amidah you do not answer amen or say kedusha with the minyan, you just pause and listen to the chazzan, UNLESS you have already finished the ‘Sim Shalom’ paragraph at the end of the amidah. THEN you CAN say kedusha with the minyan, and continue with ‘E-lokai netsor…’ after kedusha.

    3) Finish tachanun.

    4) You can sit for ashrai.

    #827770

    old man
    Participant

    1. Yes

    2. No

    3. No.When kedushah comes, stop. After, continue.

    4. Answer amens and keep going.

    5. Sit

    #827771

    Sam2
    Participant

    Look at the Artscroll Siddur (on the bottom of the pages with Baruch Sheamar Barchu usually). They give a great list of what you can say when.

    #827772

    Toi
    Participant

    one thing alot of people dont know- if the chazzan reaches kidusha and youre in middle of the amida-stop davening and concentrate on kedusha silently, having in mind to be as if you said it.

    #827773

    BTGuy
    Participant

    Hi mik5. Mazel Tov and Hatzlacha!! What a wonderful thing to hear! So many wonderful and meaningful moments lay ahead for you, iy”H!!

    If I may, I would like to recommend a book that I find invaluable in my efforts to grow in davening.

    The book is Pathway to Prayer, by Rabbi Meir Birnbaum. It comes in Ashkenaz and Sephardi versions. One of the many invaluable parts of the book covers the questions you asked here. Another part covers the Shemona Esrai line by line explaining the meaning of each line, which is invaluable in helping to daven with more and more intensity, which according to Rabbi Birnbaum, is the way to ensure our arrows of prayer fly far and high.

    Thank you for your post. It made me happy on this rainy day to read what you have to say. Hatzlacha!!

    #827774

    pushtayid
    Member

    Mik,

    Your questions may depend on if you are following Sefardi minhagim or ashkenaz ones. In response to your first question, some say that you should not answer amen “beemtza haperek” – in middle of a paragraph. Thus, if you are in the middle of ashrei, it is not so simple that you can just answer. I would suggest, if you see the Chazzan going to the bima, finish whatever paragraph you are up to and wait to answer amen. Note that if you finish Yehi chevod, you will have to repeat the last passuk – vehu rachum again because you are supposed to connect the end of yehi chevod to ashrei.

    For your second question, the above posts were correct but I am not sure how clear they were. If you are not finished the first yehiyu leratzon (after sim shalom), you must continue without answering amen to anything and once kedusha comes, you must pause and listen and follow the kedusha without saying it. Then continue after kedusha is finished. If you did finish the yehiyu leratzon, you can answer amen and baruch hu ubaruch shemo as well as kedusha even in middle of elokai netzor.

    As to your third and fourth questions, the other two posts sound correct according to all shitos (as far as I know).

    I am not a posek so I am not saying everything I said was correct but at least this can give you an idea of the applicable halachos.

    Hatzlacha with everything and Hashem should give you tremendous bracha for becoming a baal tshuva.

    #827775

    Sam2
    Participant

    In response to your first question, some say that you should not answer amen “beemtza haperek” – in middle of a paragraph. Thus, if you are in the middle of ashrei, it is not so simple that you can just answer. I would suggest, if you see the Chazzan going to the bima, finish whatever paragraph you are up to and wait to answer amen. Note that if you finish Yehi chevod, you will have to repeat the last passuk – vehu rachum again because you are supposed to connect the end of yehi chevod to ashrei.

    I don’t think this is true. You can say Amen at any point in Pesukei D’zimra because it’s part of Shevach to HKBH. There are some Shittos that you can even answer Amen in the middle of the Brachos of Baruch Sheamar and Ashrei. Can you please bring a source for this opinion?

    For your second question, the above posts were correct but I am not sure how clear they were. If you are not finished the first yehiyu leratzon (after sim shalom), you must continue without answering amen to anything and once kedusha comes, you must pause and listen and follow the kedusha without saying it. Then continue after kedusha is finished. If you did finish the yehiyu leratzon, you can answer amen and baruch hu ubaruch shemo as well as kedusha even in middle of elokai netzor.

    This paragraph is self-contradictory and also not so clear. It is a Machlokes Haposkim whether or not you can say Amen in the middle of Elokai Netzor. The Minhag in many places is like the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch that you can. Same with Kedusha. Once you say the second Yihyu Leratzon then you are done with Elokai Netzor and can answer anything no matter what.

    Just a note about “saying Kedusha”. When we say you can say Kedusha that means only the Pesukim of Kadosh Kadosh Kadosh and Baruch Kevod. It doesn’t mean the paragraphs (or phrases) in between or Yimloch Hashem (and certainly not Shema Yisrael on Shabbos).

    #827776

    mynamesixonethree
    Participant

    mik5, considering your post on the “so many tragedies” post, I suggest you ask a Chabad Rabbi.

    #827777

    pushtayid
    Member

    Sam2,

    Your first point is exactly on point with mine – “there are SOME shitos…” That is exactly what I said. Some poskim hold you should not answer amen in the middle of ashrei. I got this from a siddur compiled by Rav Ovadia Yosef. I do not know his source.

    I do not understand why my second point was self contradictory. Please explain.

    And when it comes to kedusha, according to most shittos, in Elokai Netzor, you can answer the full kedusha. It is birchos krias shema where you can only answer kadosh kadosh etc.

    #827779

    Sam2
    Participant

    No one, as far as I know, holds that you can say Az Bekol or Nekadesh during Elokai Netzor. The contradictory part was where you said if you say the second Yihyu Leratzon but are still in Elokai Netzor. That is by definition delf-contradictory. And I find it very hard to believe that any mainstream Shittos hold that you can’t respond in the middle of Ashrei. I don’t claim to know anywhere near everything (or anything), but such an opinion is not found in the mainstream Poskim anywhere.

    #827780

    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    Some siddurs have a chart in the back listing which responses are permitted when. Most editions have the chart in Hebrew but the Koren has it in English.

    #827781

    pushtayid
    Member

    I did not say the second yehiyu leratzon. I said the first one (after sim shalom). And just because they are not mainstream, does not mean they don’t exist. I was merely pointing out that you cannot give a general yes or no without knowing what minhag the person is following.

    #827782

    mik5
    Participant

    It is brought down that a person who recites ashrei 3x daily with kavana is guaranteed a share in olam haba. Interrupting to answer amen is not indicative of kavana.

    I learned that it is ossur to recite tehillim or other prayers when the chazzan is saying kaddish.

    I am Ashkenazi.

    Thanks, btguy. Gut shabbos.

    #827783

    mynamesixonethree
    Participant

    If you are ashkanazi, why did you refer to the Lubavitcher Rebbe as the moshiach in another thread? I dont know many ashkanzim that do so.(This is not an attack btw, just curious).

    #827784

    pushtayid
    Member

    Huh? Most lubavitchers are ashkenazi.

    #827785

    mynamesixonethree
    Participant

    I am friendly with some lubavitchers and they do not classify themselves as Ashkenzi, meaning they do not always pasken same halacha as Ashkenazim regarding certain things, and daven Ari.- They classify themselves as Chabad/Lubavitch.

    #827786

    mik5
    Participant

    The thing about Moshiach was a joke. Most Lubavitchers are Ashkenazim.

    #827787

    Sam2
    Participant

    Mik5: That’s not Kavanah. If you are required to answer Amen during Ashrei then you are required to answer Amen. If you have so much Kavanah during Ashrei that you wouldn’t notice the Bracha then you probably shouldn’t be saying Ashrei at a time when you need to answer Amen.

    #827788

    Sam2
    Participant

    Mik5: That’s not Kavanah. If you are required to answer Amen during Ashrei then you are required to answer Amen. If you have so much Kavanah during Ashrei that you wouldn’t notice the Bracha then you probably shouldn’t be saying Ashrei at a time when you need to answer Amen.

    #827789

    mynamesixonethree
    Participant

    I am glad to hear it was a joke. I realize they are ashkenazim, but what I am trying to say is that the ones I know dont “classify/label” themselves as such.

    #827790

    mik5
    Participant

    “You probably shouldn’t be saying Ashrei at a time when you need to answer Amen.”

    It’s not my fault that the chazzan begins kaddish while I’m still on Ashrei. It’s a pretty long psalm, you know?

    #827791

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Are you talking about Ashrei by Mincha?

    BTW, A Lubavitcher wouldn’t call himself Ashkenaz when discussing Minhagim, but if you would ask him if he is a Sfardi or an Ashkenazi he would reply, Ashkenazi.

Viewing 23 posts - 1 through 23 (of 23 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.


Trending