February 3, 2022 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #2057600
I sometimes work in an internet office. Countless times people start schmoozing with me. I grunt in response, but quite often they just continue, and I gotta bluntly tell them to get lost (politely).
I am not the only person the victim of such barbarianism. I see others too, sometimes those who don’t know how to say get lost.
The amount of wrongness in this is amazing:
First of all, the way it works is you buy packages, i.e. a certain amount of money for a certain amount of hours. So someone distracting me is directly costing me money.
Number two, My boss loses out.
And the grand number three is this: look, the guy’s too stupid/inconsiderate to realize that you’re working and not there to schmooze, ok. Bad enough. But when it persists for a couple of minutes, and the victim is just looking down and not responding, what possible excuse do they have? Have they no conscience? Like I said, there are many people who can’t say get out of here. And even those that do might feel uncomfortable. But either way, why does it have to come down to that? Are these such dismembered subjects of society that they can’t pick up on these gross social skills that if someone is projecting a severe non-interest in the conversation–which shouldn’t have even started to begin with–that they should get the out of there?
This isn’t one person raised in a barn. And not two and not three. This seems to effect a surprising amount of people, and it boggles my mind.
PS to break all records, an acquaintance of mine actually came over to schmooze with me, and looked at the screen to see what I was doing.February 3, 2022 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #2057606Little FroggieParticipant
.. And now you’re doning the same to me. I came here to do work.. and you interrupt me with your rant. Couldn’t you understand that you’re wasting my time? There’s a reason why I’m not looking at your piece.. oops I’m mean I did, no I didn’t…
Does anyone else realize the same thing happens when we’re in Shul Davening.. using our precious time communicating with HaShem… and someone else sidles along for a shmus..February 3, 2022 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #2057603AMputtingonHaRITZParticipant
It sounds like you may be a really likeable person.
The way some people are wired they need human connection way more frequently.
See the situation as a positive thing and go easy on them.
Don’t waste their time either and wait half a conversation for them to pick up on hints. An immediate and considerate, “Sorry really busy right now, you’re kinda interrupting my flow – please let me get back to you later,” can go a long way.February 3, 2022 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #2057604GadolhadorahParticipant
By “internet office” do you mean a “shared workspace” and if so, is it one of those with small private offices/individual cubicles or a large room with long tables where you simply set up your laptop and use their Wi-Fi??February 3, 2022 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #2057627
I work in a shared space with my family and (sometimes gladly) share in whatever others are doing. If you are forced to be in a place with strangers, maybe think about them as family, and count time you are talking with them as cheated ( and talk accordingly). One of the baalei musar was overheard asking a farmer about his chicken and at the same time murmuring gemora to himself.
A practical suggestion: use earphones visibly attached to the laptop and shake ad if you are listening to music.February 3, 2022 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #2057632Zaphod BeeblebroxParticipant
@participant do you feel better now? Let it all out. Don’t hold back. You’re in a safe place. Shh. Hush darling. Everything’s gonna be just fine. Zaphod’s got you. There now. Shh.
In all seriousness though, I feel for you, I really do. I sometimes encounter similar people (in a similar setting), and I just want to pinch them in the teeth. You hear that Greg? I’m talking about you. No one wants to hear about your dogs ophthalmologist appointment. We really don’t. Just be quiet. (I’m not joking this guy is like a seeing eye person for his dog. It’s ridiculous. Just looking at this guys face gives me a headache.)
@participant, you in all honesty have my deepest sympathies. I know what your going through. I truly feel for you. Stay strong buddy. We’re rooting for you. May you not get arrested for assault and may all your Gregs get lockjaw.February 6, 2022 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #2057990
“If you are forced to be in a place with strangers, maybe think about them as family, and count time you are talking with them as cheated ( and talk accordingly). One of the baalei musar was overheard asking a farmer about his chicken and at the same time murmuring gemora to himself.”
Maybe I should think about them like farmers and murmur gemara to myself.
But yeah, I do count time talking with them as cheated, and talk accordingly. Maybe you didn’t gather that from my first post.February 6, 2022 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #2057989
“By “internet office” do you mean a “shared workspace” and if so, is it one of those with small private offices/individual cubicles or a large room with long tables where you simply set up your laptop and use their Wi-Fi??”
It’s a room with lots of computers, but if u get permission you’re allowed to bring your own. There are two rooms, the main one each computer is divided by a divider from the next one. It’s mainly for people who don’t use it for a long time. There’s a different room for more kavua people. Both rooms have this issue.February 6, 2022 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #2057988
“The way some people are wired they need human connection way more frequently.”
Some people are wired that they need food way more frequently, but that doesn’t give them a right to steal your groceries. Some people are wired that they need sleep way more frequently, but they don’t end up in your bed.
“Don’t waste their time either and wait half a conversation for them to pick up on hints. ” Two things wrong. A) Wasting THEIR time???? Huh? B) I don’t.
“An immediate and considerate, “Sorry really busy right now, you’re kinda interrupting my flow – please let me get back to you later,” can go a long way.”
I achieve the same thing with about a twelfth of those words.February 6, 2022 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #2058036☕️coffee addictParticipant
Some people weren’t taught about personal space (maybe they never had any as a kid because they had a lot of siblings and don’t understand why people need itFebruary 6, 2022 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #2058042
participant > I do count time talking with them as cheated, and talk accordingly. Maybe you didn’t gather that from my first post.
I apologize I did not re-read the post post-spellchecker! I meant exact opposite: “chesed”, no “cheated”. You have human beings in need of interaction. Maybe some of them live alone and come to this place looking for connection, especially now when some people WFH and lack usual interaction. Find out what kind word or advise you can give them, while thinking Gemora or work in your head. Maybe you can turn them towards a better outlook to life. There was a discussion here a couple of months ago about an Iraqi boy who was suddenly approach by a Jew to help as a shabbos goy and was kind to him, and he remembered that for decades.
I had this happen recently. A person I worked with, who has a very commanding personality was railing about how someone in business did not talk appropriately with him. I suggested to him that if he is really a baal middah, then he should be able to control it, and accept that he does not need to command every not very important interaction. It took him a long time to process this new idea.February 7, 2022 9:39 am at 9:39 am #2058167
Front page has a story about Chaim Volozhiner approached by a beggar who charges him to listen to his dvar Torah .. learn from R ChaimFebruary 7, 2022 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #2058207Avram in MDParticipant
“If you are forced to be in a place with strangers, maybe think about them as family, and count time you are talking with them as [chessed] ( and talk accordingly)”
I agree with you to a point. Greeting people is a mitzva and I think a few minutes at the start of a work day or during breaks exchanging pleasantries with those around you is reasonable, expected by normal managers, and is good for productivity. I think Participant is dealing with frequent interruptions while he is deep in the flow of his work (e.g., when I’m working I call it a coding trance or the coding zone), which not only wastes time during the interaction itself, but also the recovery time afterwards where he has to pick up where he left off. This can be very challenging. I like your idea about putting on headphones, but it seems that Participant’s co-occupants aren’t getting that hint. In that case, I’d add a humorous sign to the back of the chair letting people know you’re busy and would prefer not to be interrupted. One of my favorites I use when working from home came from a cartoon I like: “Hush, I’m coding. You ate yesterday.”
“One of the baalei musar was overheard asking a farmer about his chicken and at the same time murmuring gemora to himself”
Here’s the problem: the vast and overwhelming majority of us do not have the brain power of a gadol, and we cannot effectively do multiple things at once. If I’m thinking about learning or work while trying to talk to someone, either the thoughts or the words coming out of my mouth will end up nonsensical.
Also, I can’t resist asking a question about your consistency in halachic application. I’m wondering why you seem so makpid about the time and resources a learner spends when he is supported, to the point that someone supported in kollel should ask permission to get gas, etc., yet here by an employee who is on the clock, you seem unconcerned about geneiva, even when the OP states that the interruptions are reaching the level of harming his expected productivity.February 7, 2022 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #2058224Avram in MDParticipant
“I achieve the same thing with about a twelfth of those words.”
Do you yell, “AIYEEEEE!!” and then shoot staples at them?February 7, 2022 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #2058230AMputtingonHaRITZParticipant
I stand corrected.
My comment was 100% wrong.February 7, 2022 1:43 pm at 1:43 pm #2058268user176Participant
It seems that the purpose of your post is to try and understanding why people might do this. I can offer you a potential reason but it’s hard to say when I am not there. I’d say they obviously don’t have enough people to talk to in their lives and need that extra attention. Generally people don’t do things like that (and ignore normal social behavior) unless they have some kind of (even subconscious) need.
That being said. It seems like you are handling the situation properly. I would say a healthy dose of favorable judgement might help to keep you calm and let it go a bit more easily.February 7, 2022 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #2058290
Avram > here by an employee who is on the clock, you seem unconcerned about geneiva,
You are right. My oversight. Of course, you should count that as you personal time to do chesed.
Most people in the professional world work more hours than nominal 8-hour day, so this should not be an issue. If you are billing strictly by hour, then you should be more makpid.
> the vast and overwhelming majority of us do not have the brain power of a gadol, and we cannot effectively do multiple things at once.
ok, so don’t do two things at once, do chesed first. I do agree that deep thinking often requires working without interruption. So, if this is a pattern, maybe come, greet people first (according to Mishna), have small talk with them, and THEN say that you now need to work. You can probably also rent a log cabin with internet connection somewhere and work there.
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