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December 19, 2014 5:45 am at 5:45 am #614495natethegr8Member
does anyone know what exactly r meir kahane held and if any rabbonim agreed with him
December 19, 2014 5:52 am at 5:52 am #1049232JosephParticipantThe rabbonim were opposed to his militant and belligerent positions.
December 19, 2014 10:21 am at 10:21 am #1049233secretagentyidMemberThat all arabs should be kicked out of israel. Their departure should be paid fpr and peaceful, and homes should be found for them elsewhere. He was very worried about the arab population reaching 1/3rd of israeli population, and then a civil war happening.
December 19, 2014 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #1049234secretagentyidMemberHe also held that all jews outside israel should carry a weapon. He had tremendous ahavas yisroel and was a talmid chachom. However, his ahavas yosroel blinded him into incredibly extreme views, and he completely disregarded the advice of the gedolim. Kahane may have had good ideas, but Rav Shach ztzl was right
December 19, 2014 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #1049235CuriosityParticipantTake this with a grain of salt because it’s been a few years, but I recall hearing from a close talmid of the Rosh Yeshiva ZTZ”L of Yeshivas Rabbeinu Yisrael Meir Hakohen (AKA Yeshivas Chofetz Chaim) in the Rosh Yeshiva’s name that R’ Kahane’s philosophy was basically correct, but his methods were not. In other words, his ideas about expelling the Arabs and the risks that foreigners in the land posed were ideal and true, but the methods he pushed were not practical. I don’t want to say more in someone else’s name if I don’t remember the details. R’ Kahane was definitely one of the good guys.
December 19, 2014 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #1049236yytzParticipantHis rhetoric was so militant that he literally inspired Jews to become terrorists in several instance (such as the JDL and Baruch Goldstein), not an easy thing to do to our morally-sensitive people. How this be good? The proof is in the pudding.
As R’ Hirsch, Rav Kook and others have written, Jewish nationalism should not be like non-Jewish militant nationalism (“vainglorious nationalism” as R’ Hirsch is translated), about puffing yourself up and putting others down, as a justification for injustice and war. But that’s what Kahanism is.
We can ultimately achieve more or less the same thing (incorporate the territories into Israel (a one-state solution) while maintaining a comfortable Jewish majority) though more moderate, compassionate rhetoric and means. If Jewish Home (in its current fairly moderate version) or the right-wing of Likud were to get in power, I believe that is what they would do.
There are religious settlers who believe strongly in what they are doing, yet who get along well with the local Arabs and strive to live in peace with them and use gentle language in pacifying them and improving their lives practically. That, plus getting rid of the terrorists and stopping the pro-terror incitement within Arab society, will work better than far-right nationalist grandstanding.
December 19, 2014 7:02 pm at 7:02 pm #1049237nfgo3MemberIf I recall correctly, the Jew who assassinated PM Yitzchak Rabin was a follower of Kahane. So the ahavas yisrael notion about Kahane would be overstated.
December 19, 2014 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #1049238The FrumguyParticipantIs it any wonder why one of the most popular phrases in Eretz Yisroel currently is “Kahana Tzodek”?
December 19, 2014 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1049239midwesternerParticipantThe Frum guy: For a very similar reason that “Hands up, Don’t shoot!” is popular in certain neighborhoods.
December 19, 2014 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #1049240oomisParticipantI was not fond of the JDL, but Rabbi Kahane Z”L was a visionary. Do you think he WANTED violence on top of violence? He wanted the Arabs out of E”Y, hopefully by peaceful means (buying up their property or offering them monetary incentives to leave), but if they were to respons with violence, he was in favor of hitting back twice as hard. And he was right.
I am not a violent person, but there was a time when Arabs were afraid to strike at Jews in Israel. It was a brief time, granted, but it was because they knew what would happen if they did anything. It lasted between 1967 and 1973. I was in seminary in 1970-71 and I was NEVER afraid to walk anywhere alone at night, and even through the Arab shuk on the way to the Kotel. Now, I feel as though the Arabs have no fear whatsoever of reprisals, To come into a SHUL and attack peaceful people while they are in Tallis and Tefillin, shows a singular lack of humanity. To slit the throat of a newborn baby and her entire family, or three young men on their way home from Yeshivah, people who clearly posed no threat to them, takes a very special kind of sick rishus. Rabbi Kahane would have had a response to those barbaric acts of terrorism.
He might have had his flaws as ALL human beings do, but his zeal and love for E”Y and Klal Yisroel, were honest and should not be disparaged. As far as I know, he did not condone unwarranted violence as a solution. And if he had followers who went to extremes, that happens in virtually every group where there is a charismatic leader. Look at what some people will do in the name of their rebbe. Should the rebbe be blamed for their being a lunatic fringe?
December 20, 2014 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1049241secretagentyidMemberBaruch goldstein had lost his mind when he commited his heinous crime. Before hand, he (as a doctor) used o treat arabs for free. He simply snapped
December 20, 2014 11:43 pm at 11:43 pm #1049243oomisParticipantRE: Baruch Goldstein, that is also what I had heard.
No sane person wants bloodshed. But unfortunately when push comes to shove, it tragically happens.
December 21, 2014 12:43 am at 12:43 am #1049244natethegr8Memberwere there any other violent incidents by his followers
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