Rabbi Miller on walking during davening

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  • #1590174

    The Frumguy
    Participant

    Does anyone in the Coffee Room know where Rabbi Avigdor Miller writes (or speaks) about walking around shul during davening?

    #1590248

    laskern
    Participant

    I don’t know what he says, but I can explain what is wrong with it. The reason we need a makom kavia by davening according to the Ari z”l is because davening is compared to the shooting of an arrow, When you shoot an arrow from multiple places, you cannot shoot through.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by  YW Moderator-100.
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by  laskern.
    #1590859

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    How is davening light “shooting an arrow”? Even if it is, a good archer can take aim at the target from ANY location and hit the target. For many yidden, it is more natural for them to move around when they are talking, so it would make more sense that they are relaxed and able to communicate with the Ebeshter in whatever format make it the most effective for them. People are different and trying to lock them into a rigid structure to daven makes no sense as long as they do it with respect and kavanah.

    #1590911

    1
    Participant

    Gadolhadorah you don’t pace back and forth when meeting someone face to face. Davening is a conversation, not a phone call.

    #1590916

    laskern
    Participant

    The way I understand it is that there are kitrugim, so you need to shoot many arrows or tefilos at the same place to shoot through and when you move around that is not happening.

    #1590976

    laskern
    Participant

    Look at SA O”CH 98:4 davenen should be like the korbonos, sacrifice which was done at a fixed place and not done all over the place.

    #1590979

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    To 1: Actually, I generally don’t always stand still when speaking…l frequently walk into a colleague’s office and pace a bit back and forth….for many adults (not just kids), standing still for an extended period of time is difficult. I’m obviously not referring to shmoneh esreh, etc. but to p’sukei d’zimrah and other portions of the davening where you are not obligated to stand in a solitary position.

    ‘Also, if I were to take your argument literally, when talking to another person, especially someone of great importance or authority, I wouldn’t be shuttling back and forth as many do while davening, even if holding the same position. Why is pacing a bit different from shuttling using your moshol?

    #1591062

    laskern
    Participant

    The shuttling back and forth is based on the pasuk כל עצמתי תאמרנה davening with our whole body, but we are still staying in the same place. I heard in the name of a Rebbe that it should not be down sideways because it indicates ‘no’.

    #1591097

    ZionGate
    Participant

    Harav Epstein, author of Torah Temimah zt”l , writes that certain tfillos and requests are like shooting an arrow from a very short distance away from a bull’s eye. Other requests are like standing a distance away and require more concentration and skill to hit it.
    On a more practical level, you’re sitting and trying to concentrate while others are walking back and forth,
    sometimes davening so loud as to drown out the shliach tzibbur.

    #1591098

    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Gadolhadorah,

    “For many yidden, it is more natural for them to move around when they are talking, so it would make more sense that they are relaxed and able to communicate with the Ebeshter in whatever format make it the most effective for them.”

    This doesn’t take into account the fact that there are other people davening in the shul who may be disturbed by the pacing and thus less able to relax and communicate with the Ebeshter themselves.

    #1591099

    ZionGate
    Participant

    The rabbi in one of the shuls I daven prohibits walking around and asks the person to sit down.

    #1591133

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    Shuttling?
    Those who need to pace, let them, except during shmoneh esreh.
    Zgate; Your shul sounds too rigid.

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