Rabbi Wallerstein Shiurim on Rap Music

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  • #616630

    Bookworm120
    Participant

    Does anyone remember which archive shiur of Rabbi Zecharia Wallerstein on Torah Anytime has the part where he imitates the way he thinks rappers perform? I remember that bit but can’t remember the title of the shiur…. Thanks! 🙂

    #1112188

    Anyone who sings rap music is called singing goyish music just was changed to Jewish words and is bringing a taam of Tumah into k lal Yisroel

    #1112189

    Geordie613
    Participant

    Any RZW fans, while you’re answering the OP, can you tell me where he says, “Get off the freakin internet! Get off Facebook!”.

    #1112190

    TheGoq
    Participant

    Thank you MA for answering the op’s question and not going off topic thank you thank you.

    #1112191

    Joseph
    Participant

    Going off topic is strictly against the rules of the CR. It is something that is rarely seen.

    #1112192

    Bookworm120
    Participant

    @geordie613 – There are a few shiurim where he warns his audience like that. I also can’t remember which exactly. There’s also a shiur where Rabbi Wallerstein says, “I don’t know anything about the Internet.” But that’s a whole other matter that I’d rather not discuss here in my thread.

    Again, folks, if anyone can remember which shiur R’ Wallerstein did the rap, it would be appreciated. 🙂

    #1112193

    I have the name of the shiur. If you tell me why you want this

    piece of information, I can decide whether to provide it or not.

    #1112194

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    I would like an explanation from the poster calling himself Mashiach Agent about why rap music is assur.

    #1112195

    golfer
    Participant

    Anybody wishing to explain, l’toeles harabim, why rap music is not worse than the music of Tchaikovsky, Mozart, Beethoven, and the Beatles, please do so now…

    #1112196

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    You forgot Wagner, who was a vicious Anti-Semite

    I dont know if Beethoven or Mozart were anti-semites or not

    Felix Mendelsohn was a min

    #1112197

    Mammele
    Participant

    I once heard that you can determine a song’s status by how one shakes to the beat. So if you’re only inspired to tap your toes to Mozart it seems pretty benign versus rap. Don’t know if it’s a perfect barometer but you get the idea.

    #1112198

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Classical music can be pretty fast and loud

    Ride of the Valkyries by Wagner or

    The Overture to Carmen by Bizet

    1812 Overture by Tchaikovsky (With Canon)

    Are fairly loud and very upbeat tempo

    #1112199

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    FYI Bas Kol is not Rap, its more a pop music

    #1112200

    son
    Member

    One aspect:

    A good chunk of vocal music today – be it rap, pop, or something else – has some rather empty, negative, or contrary-to-Torah values. Rap music is certainly (no statistics here – I don’t think it’s necessary) of the more explicitly risque/vulgar variety which I think conjures the “red-line” much more.

    Another aspect:

    “?? ?????? ???? ??????? ??????? ????”

    We are influenced by what we hear or see and all that comes with it whether we are aware of it or not. If one spends time around the street, they come to look more and more like it regardless of if it is conscious or not. That applies both to vocal or non-vocal music.

    With regards to Mozart: I don’t think there are cultural norms for people who listen to or are even involved in classical/orchestral/symphonic music.

    Assur? I’m sure fingers can be pointed to things like “bechukoseihem” and the ilk, but I think it can be useful to start with the a seicheldige understanding.

    #1112201

    Bookworm120
    Participant

    @comlink-x – I wanted to share the shiur with someone who could really benefit from hearing it.

    #1112202

    Bookworm120
    Participant

    On the subject of rap music, to which I have very little exposure, I believe the general consensus is that rap music tends to have a lot of vulgar language and the lyrics blatantly objectify women and speak poorly of human beings in general. And I can think of a million reasons why listening to a guy chanting slang and vulgarities to a repetitive beat is ugly in comparison to orchestral arrangements by classical composers and early rock music with a TUNE (not to mention, in the Beatles’ case, epic vocal harmonies) and by comparison tasteful lyrics.

    #1112203

    You want to give the infamous zumba speech to someone you think

    could really benefit from it? I’m kind of skeptical…

    (At least, I think that’s the one you mean.)

    But whatever, it’s public stuff. On YouTube, it’s titled

    “Freedom From This Galut is Based on Sarah Imeinus Tzniut.”

    I don’t see it on TorahAnytime.

    the general consensus is that rap music tends to have a lot of vulgar language and the lyrics blatantly objectify women and speak poorly of human beings in general.

    Vulgar language – check. Censored versions are often made.

    (Other music is catching up, especially when it features rappers.)

    Objectify women – check. (Other music did it first.)

    Speak poorly of human beings in general – As in, it expresses negative views about humanity (probably not), or it doesn’t

    reflect well on humans that we’ve created it (check)?

    #1112204

    Bookworm120
    Participant

    I see why you’d be hesitant to give out that particular lecture just like that. From just skimming through the video, I can see how the poor man’s words were taken so out of context.

    I think I’m looking for a different shiur where R’ Wallerstein does this all-out “rap” that was about how rap lyrics promote violence and “killing everybody.”

    With regards to your quote of my post, I believe you left out the phrase “I believe” before I made that statment. 😉 As someone who doesn’t have much exposure to the genre, I am open about the fact that I have little expertise. I do know with certainty that the stuff that blasts out of cars driving down my street from time to time cannot be compared even to old rock music.

    #1112205

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    We should always remember not only is hashem watching you whever you go, there is someone with a smartphone also watching you , looking to catch you tripping up and saying the wrong thing. One should always watch their words in public and realize that even if your audience likes what you say, not everyone will and those people can put the video on youtube making you look like a fool

    #1112206

    I can see how the poor man’s words were taken so out of context.

    I don’t think context would fix some of what

    some people don’t like about that speech.

    With regards to your quote of my post, I believe you

    left out the phrase “I believe” before I made that statement.

    True. Care to correct the post, mods?

    even if your audience likes what you say, not everyone will and those people can put the video on youtube making you look like a fool

    True, but in this case, the video was put up by TorahAnytime.

    ? You wrote above – I don’t see it on TorahAnytime.

    #1112207

    mr.mustard
    Participant

    Bookworm120 – Here ya go -> http://goo.gl/rlFboe

    #1112208

    Bookworm120
    Participant

    @mr.mustard – Thank you!!! This shiur seems a little more recent than what I recall hearing, but it sounds like a step in the right direction!

    @comlink-x and the Mod who commented on their post – I think the video was probably on TA at one point. The YouTube video I found had the TA watermark. Maybe TA took the video down because of its controversial elements.

    #1112209

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    ZD, you can hear the evil in Wagner’s music. Listening to it always makes me depressed. It sounds chaotic and angry.

    #1112210

    Mods, can I ask you to edit the title

    of that speech out of my earlier post?

    As for the video being on YouTube, TorahAnytime is an independent

    website, not a YouTube account. I had assumed the account with the speech belonged to TorahAnytime, but it seems likely that it is not. The point still stands, because the account is mostly a repository for Torah lectures – the speech wasn’t put up in a negative context.

    <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

    I think I’m looking for a different shiur where R’ Wallerstein does this all-out “rap”

    (I wondered, seeing as this imitation was just a second or two long.)

    If you do come across the one you were looking for originally,

    please let me know – I’m curious.

    I do know with certainty that the stuff that blasts out of cars driving down my street from time to time cannot be compared even to old rock music.

    That being what forms many people’s impression of non-Jewish music

    is really annoying. The music listened to by people who listen to music

    at a volume that probably damages their hearing over time, and who

    are rude enough to blast their music like that, is obviously not going

    to be the most tasteful stuff around (although popular music taste

    in general is pretty bad – a really good piece of music hitting #1 on

    the standard charts would almost be a surprise at this point).

    But, given that there are strong grounds on which to argue that

    we shouldn’t be listening to non-Jewish music, it’s hard to really

    consider it a bad thing…

    <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

    I once heard that you can determine a song’s

    status by how one shakes to the beat.

    Can uniform response to rhythm in humans be assumed?

    (Won’t some of us respond differently than others?)

    FYI Bas Kol is not Rap, its more a pop music

    Was there a post about this “Bas Kol” that was deleted?

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