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So ppl tell me that its bad raising kids in Israel, but i’d think lkwd is worse…..wldnt want my kid to feel out of it and weird just cuz i feel buying a juicy sweatshirt is retarded…opionions?
I don’t think it’s bad raising kids in Israel. Their hashkafos are on a much higher level, and the histapkus is also amazing.
BTW why do you think buying a Juicy sweatshirt is “retarded”? (I’d call it a fad or something like that)
observanteen: What does ‘histapkus’ mean? (i’m serious, just curious)
i would love to do that. only wish i could speak the lang 🙁
Observanteen, hashkofos are either right or wrong.
whatelseisleft – you don’t have to know how to speak the language. My great-grandmother (may she live and be well till 120) has lived there for the past 50 years and she doesn’t know a word of hebrew.
Gummy: living on a tighter budget. Not spending so much.
What I’ve heard from people who moved there (and either stayed or came back) is that being Charedi in Israel is a lot more restrictive, for better or worse.
Certain freedoms given to kids in America (like playing sports) are not allowed in Charedi societies in Israel. So if you aren’t prepared to be 100% committed to societal norms (not really halacha, but society rules) then you won’t fit in. It can be very hard on kids coming from America.
If you fit into Chardal, it shouldn’t be as much of a problem.
mdd: chas veshalom.
It maght be harder in certain aspects-really. But look at the zchus to live in EY. It’s a dream comr true.
Let me start off by saying we are not chareidi.
That being said, we made aliyah when my kids were older – two were in HS, and one in 8th grade. Let me say, from their perspective, it was the best thing we ever did. B”H they all found good kids to be with and they managed to pick up the language. I can compare them to the kids they were with in America, and they are much, much less materialistic than them, and much more idealistic.
We have asked each of them several times since we’ve come if they want to go back to America and live, and B”H they have always said no. And that’s what’s really important, is it not?
morah reyna,
That won’t be true if your child is suffering for wanting to do something relatively normal (or at least, moderately acceptable) in American Charedi society but considered a bum in Israel.
I think fix-it-up’s issue is having to spend so much for a kid to feel in, and the impression that the gashmiyus emphasis in E”Y (or lack of it) would be a breath of fresh air.
Moving to E”Y with kids of a certain age is very very complicated. You can probably google JO articles, I think one written by Rabbi Kuber, and a Mishpacha article by Rabbi Berkowitz. (IIRC in the latter article Rabbi Berkowitz stressed not fighting city hall and toeing the line.) I don’t want to belabor this because of “ureh b’tuv Yerushalayim.” I don’t know if the same applies to Lakewood, but certainly basic laws of shmiras halashon bashing any group of Jews applies.
So a)tread carefully and b)consider out of town.
I grew up in NY and am now raising a family in E”Y. From what I know I wouldn’t say that it’s harder to raise kids here per se. Just that it’s different because of the differences in society.
There are many similarities between raising kids here and in America. The kids have their own version of fashion trends here that are taken to a level I never saw before. On the other hand even the most trendy she’b’trendy here can probably do a blatt gemarah with reid. Which is much less true of America.
I one time sat in on a nice halacha shiur given by (I think he was) a bochur in shul on friday night between kabbolas Shabbos and maariv. He had a chup 3/4 the size of Florida and I’m not over exaggerating. He probably has to call in the IDF to help him comb it out every erev Shabbos. But it was a great shiur.
The hardest things to adjust to is the chutzpah here which is notorious. Not just in kids, they learn it from the pros. It takes a long time to adjust to for some people. I’ve noticed though that usually the children of Americans are better with this than pure-bred sabras.
Every place has its ma’alos and chesronos in raising children. You need to shatz them all up and see which ones you can work around or accommodate.
fix-it-up — “it’s “bad” raising kids in Israel” seems like a very simplistic perspective of a very complex issue. What does “bad” mean exactly? IMHO it’s “bad” raising kids anywhere — it is one of the biggest challenges in life (part of Chava’s curse, after all) wherever you live, and obviously a tremendous source of satisfaction.
As you yourself seem to realize, each location comes with its own set of challenges. The issues you will have to contend with will vary from place to place. Some basic differences have been mentioned by previous posters.
To just address the E”Y part of the question, perhaps what the person quoted meant to say it that it is difficult to raise kids in an environment where your home culture is different than the school culture. This is particularly true if you move once your kids are already somewhat older. As SJS said, society in Israel tends to be more extreme in many ways, and have more rigid societal norms. Additionally the culture is more “rough and tumble”, particularly by the boys, and American kids used to a much softer tone may have trouble with it. Finally, kids in E”Y tend to have much more freedom at a much younger age, which has benefits but also dangers that a parent must contend with. As an American (I’m assuming you are American as you are comparing it to Lakewood), these may be challenges you would face in E”Y.
That being said, things are not what they used to be in E”Y in many of these regards. There are certainly areas in E”Y where there are larger percentages of Anglo families and therefore the societies are more open-minded. (Again, there are advantages and disadvantages to living in these type of areas, but if you are concerned with some of these Chinuch issues, the options exist.) There are also school options even within the Chareidi world that are more “American style” (and even allow ball playing!)
Of course there are tremendous advantages to raising kids in E”Y as well as the challenges. The less of a focus on materialism is just the tip of the iceberg. It’s not easy anywhere — raising kids is hard work and a lot of tefilah, but there is a lot of “good” together with the “bad.”
And of course, (this probably should have been first), living in E”Y is a Mitzvah D’oraisah! So this is really a topic that should be discussed with your Posek, as far as what your personal chiyuvim with regard to this mitzva are, in your personal circumstances.
sister bear: i dont see why anyone should not be able to pick up a language in six months or less. I got fluent in hebrew after being here under 2 months.
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