Raising the Pinky
Home › Forums › Bais Medrash › Minhagim › Raising the Pinky
- This topic has 64 replies, 35 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 3 months ago by mr.mustard.
August 31, 2011 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #1115302KefMember
I recall seeing this question in Ohr Somayach’s Ask the Rabbi section many years ago.August 31, 2011 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #1115303TomcheMember
old man: And what does he write about this issue?August 31, 2011 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #1115304ToiParticipant
k so conservative”judaism” isnt generally accepted as legitamite, and certainly not in relation to halacha. i think its ossur to drive on shabbos.April 7, 2013 3:46 am at 3:46 am #1115305DovidMMember
I see non-Sephardim drape the tzitzis of their tallis over their pinky.
As for trying to find your first initial when someone is doing hagbah, I try to remember where it appeared in the maftir reading since that should be what I am seeing when the Torah is raised.May 1, 2013 1:29 am at 1:29 am #1115306R.T.Participant
The reason for raising the pinky at Haghbah — It may serve as a tikkun for the *issur* of looking at the pinky of a woman. I believe this is brought down in the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 152:8 and relevant commentaries.May 1, 2013 2:21 am at 2:21 am #1115307rebdonielMember
There was little the Conservative movement came up with that Toysfos didn’t come up with 700 years earlier: allowing clapping on shabbat, doing away with mayim acharonim, gevinat akum, etc.June 28, 2013 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #1115308☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
In a search for rd’s posts on Tosafos’ shittah, I noticed this.
I am moche in the strongest terms.June 28, 2013 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #1115309temimusMember
I second DaasYochid. May I suggest to the mods that rd’s subtitle be slightly modified to Proudly Conservative.June 29, 2013 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #1115310ToiParticipant
sorely misguided, and an aspiring talmid haham?July 1, 2013 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #1115311HaLeiViParticipant
And considering that I explained alll those references in Tosafos, with a pretty obvious explanation that was overlooked by the zealous professor. When you actually care about understanding Tosafos you learn a lot. The Braysa says that Torah is Niknes with Emunas Chachamim (among other virtues).July 1, 2013 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #1115312rebdonielMember
If I attack certain shitot on the grounds that the underlying methodology resembles Conservative heresy, how would that make me Conservative? I oppose any efforts which claim that changing circumstances override Talmudic gezerot. Halakha doesn’t change with the times, as many liberals among us claim (Tosafot explicitly say that whenever the reason of a rabbinic
There must be a beit din hagadol with the proper authority to implement changes of the magnititude that we see with things like people not washing mayim achronim, people carrying in invalid eruvin, clapping on Shabbat (many among us are then mechallelei shabbat, albeit be shogeg), some people making tea on shabbat improperly (Shabbat 40b s.v. U’shma claims that there is no bishul in a kli sheni) and even lifting commercial restrictions between Jews and idolatrous Christians, ignoring classic definitions of avodah zarah. When the Conservatives impose any of their innovations, in most cases, they claim to be falling back on Tosfos. Whether it be mayim achronim, cheese, instruments, or whatever the issue is. The consensus among most Orthodox Jews, thankfully, is not to rely on these leniencies.
You’re not allowed to shave or wash clothing on Tisha b’Av, but when Tisha b’Av falls on Thursday, Tosafot allows Jews to shave and to wash clothing in the afternoon to facilitate the preparation of the Sabbath (Taanit 30a sv Ve tarveihu).
Stop and think a moment. If you’re such Tosafists, then why don’t you do things that Tosafot permits that are seen as improper among most Orthodox Jews and by scores of poskim? Do serious Orthodox Jews really ever do things like this? Do you clap on shabbat, do laundry on Tisha be Av when it falls on a Thursday, carry in communal eruvin, make tea in a kli sheni, believe Christianity is not avoda zarah (most poskim nowadays say that shituf is forbidden even for gentiles, contra Tosafot), eat microbial rennet cheese made by goyim, etc.?July 1, 2013 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #1115313Sam2Participant
RD: And once again, I say to you (and I notice that you have not answered), who on Earth do you think you are compared to the thousands upon thousands of Talmidei Chachamim that have seen Tosfos say all these things and didn’t think that it made Tosfos illegitimate or Apikorsim? And I think a majority of Frum Jews clap on Shabbos (certainly all the Chassidim do), use a Kli Sheini at least B’dieved, just about every Ashkenazi holds that Christianity isn’t Avodah Zarah for Christians, and plenty of other things we rely on Tosfos for. Do you honestly think that you’re so much smarter than the Rema or any of the Rishonim before him or Poskim between him and now to realize that Tosfos go against the proper Derech in Chazal? You and Yeshivat Hadar have solved the Derech in Torah that no one else has since the time of the Rishonim? Stop, think, have a little humility, and realize how dead wrong you might just be. Do you honestly think that you are anything compared to all of those who have seen Tosfos and not dismissed them?July 1, 2013 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #1115314HaLeiViParticipant
As i explained earlier, Tosafos did not discontinue any Gezeira. He did explain why we don’t have to revert back to it when it is not Nahug. Tosafos followed the Mesora Conservative Jews change messora. Which one are you?
We view Mayim achronim leniently because of Tosafos. This is true of those of us who are Makpid on Mayim Achronim. We follow Tosafos’ Psakim anywhere that the concensus of Rishonim don’t disagree. If you found a place where we don’t actually Pasken Lemaase like Tosafos, that has absolutely no bearing on the point you are making.
You are doing to Rabboseinu Mitzarfas what the tziddukim did to the Tanna’im. Similar complaints; similar conclusions.
Tosafos’ “methodology” is actually straight from the Gemara. We don’t have the courage, usualy, to apply such answers that are used in the Gemara (Okimtos, Tarti Ninhu, Hava Matzi, Kechad Amora etc.) because we know our limits and figure it is our Lamdus that it limited, and that there is a simpler answer that skipped our brains.
This is the reason we find that it often takes a great Amora to give a simple answer when the Gemara was actually cornered into applying that answer in the first place. But since for all we know there might be a simple logic that will make everything fall into place we refrain from giving a cornered answer until someone with vast understanding and knowledge says that this is indeed the appropriate answer.
Someone I know once said that it is not necessarily a good thing to be Mechaven to Tosafos’ Terutz.
Applying terminology to Tosafos’ learning does not show depth of understanding Sof Daatam of Tosafos. It shows an intelligent narrow-mindedness which is very common in these shallow, sweeping, observations that are published in order to gain a suffix.July 1, 2013 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #1115315Sam2Participant
Mods, did you forget about my post? Or are you still debating it or something?
forgot about it. I’ll go dredge it up and delete itDecember 9, 2015 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1115316mr.mustardParticipant
If one is trying to show respect for the torah, why not bow?
The finger thing doesn’t seem appropriate.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.