Rav Aharon Leib Shteinman tells Yidden to shun secular education
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- This topic has 61 replies, 22 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 6 months ago by shein.
September 7, 2012 4:05 am at 4:05 am #895822rabbiofberlinParticipant
vochindik : Lo sossur only applies to halachos, not to “milei d’alma”. Ironically, the halocho is contrary to what you are porposing. If you want to say that the gedolim you mention are now contradicting the halochos and we should follow them because of “lo sossur’, then say so.
On the other point, the discussion here was not about college- we can argue about this. The argument here is whether to ‘just learn Torah and always Torah” and do nothing else. On that, quite clearly, the many halochos from the gemoro onwards weigh prepodantly on the side of having a job and working.
May I point out that the chassidische rebbes, by and large, counsel their chassidim to have a job.September 7, 2012 4:58 am at 4:58 am #895823WhiteberryMember
Can someone definitively state exactly what it is the Rosh Yeshiva said in France?September 7, 2012 5:08 am at 5:08 am #895824Josh31Participant
The context of Rav Shteinman’s statement is important. France is trying to impose a detailed curriculum on private schools. He was not speaking to some 7th grader in the Lakewood Cheder trying to wiggle out of his math studies.September 7, 2012 10:40 am at 10:40 am #895825
May I point out that the chassidische rebbes, by and large, counsel their chassidim to have a job.
I agree with rob! We should all follow the example of the Chasidim. They rarely go to college and even their elementary and high school secular studies programs are very minimal.
This would make Rav Shteinman and Rav Moshe very happy I think.September 7, 2012 12:43 pm at 12:43 pm #895826
I will not dispute Rav Shteinman. Secular education includes alot of anti-Jewish ideas (ie in science, psychology etc). Yes, our kids should learn Torah. However, many kids are coming out of the hareidi system HATING to learn, bc they are studying and studying and studying long hours instead of being children. At least the secular system knows how much learning a child can tolerate, and when it’s just too much..
Rav Lazer Yudel Finkel is known for pointing this out. When asked why the Americans learn as well if not better than the Israelis once they get to Bais Medrash, he responded that the Israelis never played when they were young, so they make it up when they get older. The Americans played when they were younger, so they are refreshed and able to learn when they are older.September 7, 2012 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #895827
So you will be willing to do IVF, and not care about the conception of the child in the womb? That is the Teshuvah of Rav Moshe there, and he slams the Chassidim who say “conception is holy” and do not allow IVF. This is because Rav Moshe based his P’sak on Halacha, not “ideas” or “traditions” like the Chassidim do (with their furry hats becoming Kadosh).
P.S. I don’t mean any disrespect to Chassidim. I try to be live & let live when it comes to Divrei Reshus (such as wearing a furry hat or a Burka), but I am trying to prove a point.September 7, 2012 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #895828apushatayidParticipant
“They rarely go to college and even their elementary and high school secular studies programs are very minimal.”
The second part of the statement is probably true, but I have not done a study on the secular studies departments of chassidishe schools to say one way or the other. Regarding the 1st half of the statement, may I suggest you show up at the mens campus of machon liparnassah, for example, and see for yourself just how “rare” it really is. The remedial classes offered there in math and english certainly point to the second half of the statement being true.September 7, 2012 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #895829
Rav Lazer Yudel Finkel is known for pointing this out. When asked why the Americans learn as well if not better than the Israelis once they get to Bais Medrash, he responded that the Israelis never played when they were young, so they make it up when they get older. The Americans played when they were younger, so they are refreshed and able to learn when they are older.
I believe it was Rav Nossan Tzvi. Sorry about that.September 7, 2012 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #895830rabbiofberlinParticipant
shein- I have a great affinity with chassidim and I admire their enterprise and their joy of living. They are plumbers, builders, electricians, caterers, camera dealers and much more. The problem is that most of the non-chassidische world does not do these jobs (I am not here to criticize their choices) so when the non- chassidim want to work, study of some secular studies is imperative. This is why Touro College and other programs are so succesful. The point is that ,if you need secular studies to get a job as lawyer, doctor, accountant, actuary and others, you just have to study these subjects.That is, of course, if you accept the fact of work !September 7, 2012 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #895831
rob: That’s exactly my point. The Chasidim work without much of a secular education. And Chasidim are, B”H, no less poor than the Yeshivish oilem. So, actually, Chasidim are a good proof for not needing a secular education.September 7, 2012 10:35 pm at 10:35 pm #895832zahavasdadParticipant
Look at the average salary of a Chassidic Jews vs Average Salary of a Yeshivish jew vs the average salary of a MO Jew many who have college degrees and advanced degrees.
Yes the Chassidim work, but they dont usually work (Unless its Diamonds) in High paying jobs that are needed to support a Frum Lifestyle . IE 10 Yeshiva Tuitions, Kosher Food costs more, Cost of Living in Jewish Neighborhoods cost moreSeptember 9, 2012 3:05 am at 3:05 am #895833
The Chasidim are no poorer than the Yeshivish oilem.
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