September 25, 2021 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #2009983user176Participant
It is clear that those vaccinated are still succeptible to COVID, although, many claim the systems are not what they would have been without vaccinating. I’m not sure how anyone can know that as symptoms vary greatly even among non vaccinated. Does anyone have real numbers (sources) showing the mortality rate of people diagnosed with Covid for both vaccinated and unvaccinated? Obviously there are a lot more factors and it’s not that simple but that information is a good start.September 25, 2021 10:52 pm at 10:52 pm #2009999provaxxParticipant
The incidence rate ratio of hospitalizations (comparing hospitalization among non-vaccinated vs vaccinated) is 10.4, according to recent data published by the CDC. The incidence rate ratio for death is 11.3.
In simple terms – if you’re vaccinated, your risk of hospitalization and death due to Covid drops by >90%.
https://www.cdc .gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7037e1.htm?s_cid=mm7037e1_wSeptember 26, 2021 12:19 am at 12:19 am #2010021
a little more details on the paper provaxx refers:
for 18-49 and 50-64 groups, risk of hospitalization decreases by 10-15 both in april-june and june-july time intervals, and death rates by 16x (with 18-49 in april-june being 30x)
for 65+, hospitalization decrease in april-june is 13 and in june-july 8, death decrease 16 and 10.
So, there is substantial decrease for 65+ and in one measure for 18-49 due to a combination of delta and time. It is possible that part of the decrease is due to an increasing number of previously infected among remaining unvaxed and more active people moving from unvaxed into vaxed column.September 27, 2021 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #2010388kollelmanParticipant
The numbers are unreliable. They are counting anyone vaccinated within 14 days as unvaccinated. Many epidemiologists believe the vaccine is weakening the immune system and causing the patient to become MORE susceptible to infection and worse. The whole thing is a farce. If you haven’t realized the propaganda and moving goalposts over the past 18 months, I suggest you open your eyes.September 27, 2021 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #2010399
kollel?man> They are counting anyone vaccinated within 14 days as unvaccinated.
in this paper, I believe they would include into “unvaccinated” – indeed those who were just vaccinated and also those who were already infected. Both would affect the numbers. Let’s see how we can clean it up:
1) there is separate data for immediate 2 weeks after vaccine. First, the Phase 3s answered that question clearly for the original virus. It was also reviewed for Delta later on, for example in Israel. It is the easiest to check what happens exactly after vaccine is given.
2) You can also separate effects of vaccination from recently vaccinated: in July-August, the rate of vaccination was very low (0.2% per day) and most were for younger people, as older ones were already vaccinated some time ago and not yet getting boosters: so those numbers should be reliable.
3) including those who were previously infected affects numbers much more. But presuming that previous infections decrease new infection (as many reasonably think), this would only make numbers for not infected even higher. Effect of previously infected on vaxed is harder to bound, but as the overall effect is on the order of 10, and proportion of previously infected is (way) less than 50%, the effect would still exist under very stringent assumptions.
4) similar results come from Israel and England, where vaccinations were performed much faster, so confusing effects are much smaller.September 27, 2021 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #2010400
> Many epidemiologists believe the vaccine is weakening the immune system
could you name these epidemiologists so that we can track their argument?September 30, 2021 12:40 am at 12:40 am #2010740YsiegelParticipant
Name just 3, plese! Just three! (Miyut ribui = 2, and many = at least 1 more…so 3 =])September 30, 2021 1:10 am at 1:10 am #2010746charliehallParticipant
“Many epidemiologists believe the vaccine is weakening the immune system”
Nonsense. By definition the vaccines strengthen the immune system. That is how vaccines work!September 30, 2021 7:31 am at 7:31 am #2010752ujmParticipant
WB Dr. Hall, for your biannual visit.September 30, 2021 9:15 am at 9:15 am #2010756votekosherParticipant
That’s how vaccines are SUPPOSED to work.
In the U.S., the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released a pivotal study showing fully vaccinated people can spread the delta variant as readily as non-vaccinated people….
“ …Three-quarters of those infected had been fully vaccinated. Nearly 80 percent were symptomatic.”
That’s from PBS, not “anti vaxxers”:
This is the first “vaccine” of ALL TIME that they claim won’t protect you from actually getting (or spreading!) the disease it was created for.
On top of that the vaccine reactions reports are now more than all other vaccines combined.
Read them yourself at http://www.OPEN VAERS.com
Finally over four thousand doctors around the world have signed a declaration opposing the lack of Govt and hospital support for the outpatient treatments that we all know are saving lives, and for their being censored or fired for simply questioning the efficacy of the vaccines or for pointing out that too many young men getting Vaxxed are getting myocarditis.
“ Thousands of Physicians and Medical Scientists Sign “Rome Declaration” in Protest, Launch New Information Platform”
(Perhaps you noticed that Israel with its extra high vaccinated population has skyrocketing levels of vaxxed infected IN THE HOSPITALS. its happening in AUS and the UK and eventually will be reported here. Even our “honest media” that gets over SIX BILLION/ year in pharmaceutical advertising will eventually stop hiding the facts).
And I also suggest you look up Harvey Risch, MD, PhD
Professor of Epidemiology (Chronic Diseases) at Yale and see what he has to say about treating Covid and the vaccines.September 30, 2021 9:33 am at 9:33 am #2010856
From that PBS interview:
“What I would say is that, actually, this study, looking at what happened in Provincetown, is the vaccines working exactly as we expected. And let me lay out why.
And what you had was, you had an influx of a lot of people coming to Provincetown for July 4 celebrations, a lot of unvaccinated people, Delta virus surging. You did have a good number of breakthrough infections. Not surprising when you have a lot of people packed into bars and clubs.
But let’s see what happened to those people. Almost all of them did extraordinarily well. A small number ended up in the hospital. No one died. And it did not fuel this massive outbreak that has led to more and more cases in an exponential growth.”
Etc.September 30, 2021 9:33 am at 9:33 am #2010857
Read them yourself at http://www.OPEN VAERS.com
Self reporting. Any troll can post their “reactions” there.September 30, 2021 9:33 am at 9:33 am #2010858
Yeah, that’s the guy whose colleagues all got together to sign a letter debunking him.October 1, 2021 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #2011381
votekosher> released a pivotal study showing fully vaccinated people can spread the delta variant as readily as non-vaccinated people
I am curious – could you please explain what caused you to quote a study about one particular case in Provincetown and make it sound like this is generally true?
We are here trying to reason together. Why try to confuse us? Is it sloppy language? Is it that you copied this language from somewhere else? Or did you mis-understand the study? Trying to understand your motivation better.October 4, 2021 12:23 am at 12:23 am #2011980
Israelis report that for 60+ year olds, 2 shots _currently_ (that is about 8 months later) have 5x serious illness decrease comparing with non-vaxed, and a recent booster adds another 12x for a total 60x. TOctober 10, 2021 5:00 pm at 5:00 pm #2014188
There seems to be one unfortunate psychological effect: observant Jewish community seem to react to COVID and government and life in general similar to US Southern population. There is one difference though: the Southerners live in large in rural areas, while Jews in very urban ones. I see in remote suburban areas that large groups of people walk without masks but most are walking around other people. The only side effect of this is that many still are maskless when coming inside stores, pubs, etc. But still they are doing not so bad. At the same time, Jews copy them (as we see here views mindlessly copied from talk shows and obscure sites) in urban environment with worse results.October 10, 2021 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #2014371philosopherParticipant
A month ago the doctors in Israel said 99% of hospitalized are non-vaxxers. Now they are saying 65% hospitalized are unvaxxed…let’s see the numbers in a year.October 11, 2021 1:04 am at 1:04 am #2014424
Philosopher, in a year 90% of hospitalized will be vaxxed – because most people will be vaxxed and remaining will get sick one or more times. Over the whole period, 10 times proportionally more non-vaxed will pass away. What exactly are you trying to prove? that it is safer to get sick and die or be immune than to get a vaccine?October 11, 2021 7:45 am at 7:45 am #2014431philosopherParticipant
Always ask, well, vaxxed people are dying as well, unfortunately, either from “breakthrough cases” or from side effects. And we are not even talking about long-term effects that were not studied or are in the process of being studied ( mostly by the pharmaceutical companies…which guarantees no honest reporting of results)October 11, 2021 8:07 am at 8:07 am #2014490Reb EliezerParticipant
We make a brocho rofei chol bosor umaflie lasos. Rofei also means prevention, as it says that Hashem is our Doctor by ‘not’ laying on us all the illness of Mitzraim. Umaflie laasos, He creates wonders through a vaccine which heals through illness. The makah creates the refuah either through a dead virus or through emulation.October 11, 2021 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #2014704
phil > as well, unfortunately, either from “breakthrough cases” or from side effects.
the words you are using: “breakthrough” and “side” effects should be your clue that these are not primary effects and lower incidence than the original disease.
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