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I went yesterday to a class where it was explained to me that the gemorah in baba batra 10 and gemorah pesachim 50 staes that teh world to come is the opposite of this world with the so-called leaders in this world being the janitors in the world to come and the janitors in this world being the rosh yeshivot in the world to come. If you make a graph of this you will have a triangle. But according to these two gemorot this is not true the world will really be the opposite so now superimpose the new upside down triangle on the originial triangle and presto you have a Jewish star. And
That sounds like a nice Limud Z’chus for what we know was a pagan symbol before Matan Torah and for a symbol that first shows up in a Karaite Kaballah Sefer and somehow found its way into mainstream Judaism.
The “Jewish symbol” is the Menorah.
The Gemara is not talking about Roshei Yeshiva. At least not worthy ones. You think that people who learned Hashem’s Torah and toiled over it and gave up worldly goals for the sake of Hashem, will be on the bottom!?
The idea is that the ordinary person who works and suffers is looked at as more deserving than the nobility. (If I say anything more I’ll be mixing in politics.)
I believe it became popular since the traditional Jewish symbol, the seven-arm menorah, was considered “too Jewish”. A “lion” might be more appropriate for Eretz Yisrael, but the current regime wouldn’t want to remind people that they are usurpers by using the seal of the royal house (which could easily have been represented by a regency if a Jewish state was ever established there).
Six pointed stars are common in many cultures iconography. American police often wear them. They almost ended up in the American flag.
It’s not a limud z’chus; it’s narishkeit.
Arutz,please explain how the graph forms into a triangle. i dont see a triangle. perhaps a circe or a trapazoid?
There are 12 points where the lines intersect, symbolizing the 12 shevatim.
557: That was my nice way of saying exactly what you said. That’s what I meant.
Choppy and Akuperma: The “Jewish Star” was a symbol used by many Frum Jews long before the Zionist Congress made it their official symbol. I once noticed that in one of Rabbi Wein’s history books (I forget which one) there is a picture of a Cheder. In the Cheder there is a Magen David embroidered into the cover on one of the tables.
check out this link – http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1990_1999/1999/2/King%20Solomon-s%20Seal
seems that the 6 pointed star has been found as far back as the 3rd/4th centuries. I think that predates Karites by a couple hundred years minimum. They may have embraced the symbol as well…but whatever the origin, it seems to be older.
Margol: Interesting link. Thank you. But the symbol is much older than that. We have Egyptian hexagrams dating back about 3000 years at least.
Finding a symbol in an ancient Shul doesn’t prove it to be a Jewish symbol. There are some very wierd symbols found in ancient mosaics. The Gemara says that although you are not allowed to make certain symbols, you may allow them to remain if someone else made it for you.
I think the main Shul in Satmar had a Magen David on it. I once saw such a picture.
What I heard once is that the jewish star is made out of 2 Delta’s from the two “daleds” in David.
I think that Carlebach said the first pshat in the original post actually. or maybe he was quoting it.
The two deltas are Kineged the delta of x and of y.
??”? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ? ???? ??: ???? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???, ??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ??, ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?????, ??? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ????”? ??? ????? ????? ???? ?’ ????? ?????, ??????? ?? ??? ?? ????, ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????????? ?? ???”? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??????????? ????? ?????. ??? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???. ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???. ??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????, ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ???. ???”? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?? ????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??. ????? ????? ??????, ??? ?????????.
I don’t know if it is true but i heard that the Mugen Duvid had some sheichis with Duvid Hamelech so it may be a Jewish symbol but today the Zionists have taken it as their symbol therefore in Satmar we don’t use it.
RebRY: That seems like a foolish attitude. If the Zionists eat would you stop eating?
Sam, that question is even worse. They didn’t make eating their symbol. I’m sure you know about the Issur of Matzeiva, for precisely that kind of reasoning.
a rebbe of ours showed us some ‘kmeyos’ [amulets] written by R’ Yonasan Eibershitz/R’ Yackov Emden [one of the two, i can’t remember which one], which had kabbalistic words written all over, written around a Magen Dovid.
I have seen the same from photocopies of the Vilna Gaon’s writtings, with Magen Dovids on it.
Then again, I can’t remember where either of them came from.
HaLeiVi: I hear that. But if the Zionists made eating important or if the had decided to make certain foods “Zionist foods” the question would be the same.
It might just be a convenient way to make a six point shape.
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