Reb Moshe on Shabbos Clocks

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  • #1473556

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    February 21, 2018 8:46 am at 8:46 am#1473490REPLY
    DaasYochid ☕Participant
    A thermostat can be triggered by your actions.

    That should not make a difference here.

    No, the difference is as stated above, a thermostat is part of the normal function of the appliance, which was turned on before Shabbos. A timer is the appliance being turned on on Shabbos
    ———————
    So what your saying that if the ac had a built in timer (which are available on the market) then reb moshe would be ok with it just like a built in t-stat on shsbbos

    #1473569

    Meno
    Participant

    So what your saying that if the ac had a built in timer (which are available on the market) then reb moshe would be ok with it just like a built in t-stat on shsbbos

    You know that sound your palm makes when it hits your forehead? That.

    #1473571

    GAON
    Participant

    “can anyone explain why a t-stat is different in halacha then a timer.”
    “My question was : what is the difference between a thermostat and a timer. Both are going on and off at different intervals. ”

    Rav Moshe explains it very well in the Responsum posted by Da’as (Thanks DY!). And as DY explained it , it all depends if the act of the Malacha was already done prior to Shabbos. The very function of a Timer is that the Melacha act should be done at a certain time, which is on Shabbos.

    I don’t know which part a thermostat is comparable. It is not the “on” and “off” that is the issue, on that you have the Nemukei Yosef’s sevarah, that it all depends if the “act” has already been done, and as for a Timer , “setting up” is not considered any act. Whereas a fridge the turning it “on” for the first time is considered your “act” . It is no different then Bishul, that putting it on the fire is all that counts, even though that it is being cooked at a later point in Shabbos, as long as you did it before Shabbos it is fine.

    #1473674

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    So what your saying that if the ac had a built in timer (which are available on the market) then reb moshe would be ok with it just like a built in t-stat on shsbbos

    No, I don’t think a timer being built into the appliance would make it muttar according to R’ Moshe. If you programmed a built in timer to turn on the a/c at 11pm Friday night, for example, the a/c’s operation is beginning at 11pm.

    If, however, you turn on the a/c before Shabbos, and the compressor happens to cycle on at 11pm, that is considered a result of what you did on erev Shabbos.

    #1473677

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    GAON: You’re welcome.

    #1473679

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    MenoParticipant
    So what your saying that if the ac had a built in timer (which are available on the market) then reb moshe would be ok with it just like a built in t-stat on shsbbos

    You know that sound your palm makes when it hits your forehead? That.
    ————————–
    Not familiar with that sound.perhaps u wish to demonstrate for us. Im sure your very goof at hitting your forehead.

    #1473683

    Meno
    Participant

    Im sure your very goof at hitting your forehead.

    I am. I get lots of practice here in the Coffee Room

    #1473808

    DovidBT
    Participant

    It is no different then Bishul, that putting it on the fire is all that counts, even though that it is being cooked at a later point in Shabbos, as long as you did it before Shabbos it is fine.

    In addition to putting the uncooked food on the fire before Shabbos, doesn’t the cooking process have to be at least 50% completed before the onset of Shabbos? I’m only asking for clarification. This probably isn’t relevant to the main discussion here.

    #1473824

    GAON
    Participant

    “doesn’t the cooking process have to be at least 50% completed before the onset of Shabbos?”

    That has nothing with Hilchos/Melachos “Bishul” rather it has to do with She’hiyah/Chazarah (O.C. Ch 353-358) issue.

    #1473903

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Dass yachid:
    No, I don’t think a timer being built into the appliance would make it muttar according to R’ Moshe. If you programmed a built in timer to turn on the a/c at 11pm Friday night, for example, the a/c’s operation is beginning at 11pm.

    If, however, you turn on the a/c before Shabbos, and the compressor happens to cycle on at 11pm, that is considered a result of what you did on erev Shabbos.
    —————————–
    Based on what you wrote i have a hypothetical question:
    Suppose i have a ac running all week long . Goes on at different intervals throughout the day/ night via a 24 hour timer. According to reb moshe would i need to disconnect it before shabbos or can i let it run through out the entire week including shabbos.

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