Redeeming Modern Orthodoxy

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  • This topic has 74 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 6 years ago by mw13.
Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 75 total)
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  • #1153865
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Please name one MO (not OO) Rabbi who holds it muttar to observe Half-Shabbos, Not observe negiah, Dress untznius.

    Just because some people do it, doesnt mean its condoned.

    However some of the other sins Charedim are told go to the Rabbanim instead of the Police and frequently nothing is done against the culprit

    #1153866
    MOSHE S
    Member

    okay,I don’t know which mike they use on Shabbos. but the whole community carries on Shabbos without an eiruv, and at one of the shul’s social events the baal hamachshir (a women rabbi) told the hall manager that he only has to leave the ovens unused a half hour before “kashering”

    #1153867
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    okay,I don’t know which mike they use on Shabbos. but the whole community carries on Shabbos without an eiruv, and at one of the shul’s social events the baal hamachshir (a women rabbi) told the hall manager that he only has to leave the ovens unused a half hour before “kashering”

    this is Slander as there are not current MO women Rabbis at this time (OO is NOT MO)

    #1153868
    Joseph
    Participant

    OO identifies as MO. (A subset thereof.) MO isn’t only RWMO. LWMO is also MO.

    #1153869
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “this is Slander…”

    Since when has that stopped people from making outrageous claims on this, and other forums?

    #1153870
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    OO is not MO, no matter what they say, Avi Weiss is not part of the RCA.

    #1153871
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    And we dont even know if he was talking about a OO place, He could be talking about traditional (Old Style conservative, It uses orthodox services and does not allow women to count for minyans or davening, Some have mechitzas even)

    #1153872
    Joseph
    Participant

    Avi Weiss was a member of the RCA for many decades until last year (long after he established OO and YCT) when he, at his own choosing, decided not to renew his membership even though the RCA itself was fine all along with keeping him as a member.

    #1153873
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    I purposely avoid these threads, but I am going to clarify one thing here.

    True, the RCA didn’t kick out Avi Weiss. There was a special meeting held to discuss it. The decision was that if they kicked him out, it would only draw attention to him, which they wanted to avoid.

    Instead, they reaffirmed the decision not to accept YCT ordination as a legitimate semichah, so none of his students will be RCA members. They said either he’ll leave, or eventually he’ll die, and the RCA will be finished with it.

    The RCA also put out many statements against ordaining women and other things that Weiss did.

    OO may claim to be MO, but that doesn’t make it true. In fact, it only shows the fallacy in the argument posted many times – that people say they do things which are wrong “because I’m Modern!” YCT claims to be MO, and the RCA wants nothing to do with them. I can claim to be a Satmar chossid, but it doesn’t make it true. OO is a completely separate entity than MO.

    That’s all I’m going to post about this now. I’m going back to avoiding these threads. Maybe I should avoid reading them, not only posting in them.

    #1153874
    Sam2
    Participant

    Moshe S: There is currently one Shul in the country that identifies as Orthodox with a woman Rabbi (and their website explicitly calls them “Open Orthodox”). As far as I know, they don’t have a microphone. Even if they did, though, the RCA already said (3 times) that they’re not Orthodox.

    Joseph: If I call myself Chinese and then shoot someone and claim that it’s okay because I’m Chinese, does that make all Chinese people murderers/condoners thereof? Of course not. I don’t care if someone calls themselves “Modern Orthodox” and uses that to mean “Orthodox Lite”. They’re wrong. And them being wrong doesn’t make those actually Frum people who also call themselves “Modern Orthodox” less Frum.

    There are two microphone systems that some claim can be used on Shabbos. One is for sure Muttar as it doesn’t involve anything at all. It actually just uses well-placed water systems to amplify sound. There should be nothing wrong with that. The other uses a Grama and isn’t really used by any Orthodox Shul (but is used in some Orthodox old age homes, last I heard).

    #1153875
    charliehall
    Participant

    “decided not to renew his membership”

    He announced that he would not renew his membership exactly one day before he retired as a pulpit rabbi.

    “isn’t really used by any Orthodox Shul “

    Three Orthodox synagogues using tzomet sound systems are listed as orthodox on the OU web site; two of the three are listed as OU members. There may be more — I don’t keep up with these things.

    #1153876
    Sam2
    Participant

    charlie: The Tzomet system is the water one.

    #1153877
    rabbiofberlin
    Participant

    Sam 2 and Charliehall: I am not aware of the “tzomet’ system but I do know that R”Moshe Feinstein zz’l (no MO for sure) clearly allows a megaphone that is not electrical to be used on shabbos. Check his teshuvos. Additionally, there were some Orthodox Poskim that allowed microphones-especially solid state ones- because it is not only “grama”, but ,in essence, the circuits are open all the time.

    #1153878
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    OO identifies as MO. (A subset thereof.) MO isn’t only RWMO. LWMO is also MO.

    And NK identifies as chassidic. Should I therefore ascribe all of NK’s faults to all of chassidus? Or even all of Satmar?

    The Wolf

    #1153879
    Joseph
    Participant

    And NK identifies as chassidic.

    No they don’t. NK’s origins are from the Talmidei HaGra. Litvish through and through. And they’ve never identified as Chasidic even if a subset of their members are chasidic. In NK shuls they daven Nusach Ashkenaz.

    #1153880
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    That doesn’t change the essence of his point.

    #1153881
    Joseph
    Participant

    Even if Wolf’s mistaken assumption had been correct his comparison is still off. If NK were Chasidic then they’re Chasidic; and if someone had said otherwise they’d be wrong. My comment regarding OO wasn’t about ascribing faults. It was simply one of identification in response to a comment implying OO wasn’t MO. And OO has identified as MO both before they organized under the OO banner (i.e. Avi Weiss, HIR, being long-time RCA members self-identifying as MO etc.) and since.

    #1153882
    Sam2
    Participant

    Joseph: Yes, but why does that matter? Someone calling themselves “MO” has no bearing on other “MO” people. Just like me calling myself Chinese has no bearing on actual Chinese people.

    #1153883
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    OO might identify with MO, but MO doesnt identify with OO

    #1153884
    Joseph
    Participant

    Sam: So I propose we get rid of all labels whatsoever. There is no such thing as Chareidi, no such thing as MO, etc. There is just Jew. (I’m in favor of getting rid of the term Orthodox, Reform, etc. as well.)

    Agreed?

    #1153885
    Sam2
    Participant

    Joseph: I have also been saying that (more or less) since Day 1. There are only two labels necessary: A Jew who has Ne’emanus/(maybe also can be counted for a Minyan), and one who doesn’t.

    #1153886
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “In NK shuls they daven Nusach Ashkenaz.”

    The Baal Shem Tov ZY’A davened Nusach Ashkenaz. Doesnt Erleau daven nusach ashkenaz?

    #1153887
    Joseph
    Participant

    NK was formed by the Tamidei HaGra from the old yishuv (Rav Amram Blau zt’l, etc.) and they continue following the minhagim of the Vilna Gaon. The NK was a breakoff from the Agudah; while Rav Amram led the NK, his brother Rav Moshe Blau led the Agudah.

    #1153888
    nishtdayngesheft
    Participant

    “OO might identify with MO, but MO doesnt identify with OO”

    That is not true on the most part.

    Regardless, of the OO, Charlie Hall wanted to insist that R Gordimer is not Modern Orthodox because he does not agree with many of Charlie’s definitions of MO (OO), and therefore it is inappropriate for R Gordimer to have written the article.

    Which is just an inane proposition. R Gordimer is clearly identified as a MO rRabbi. He has smicha from what is the premier, if not only, MO Organization that issues smicha in the US. He is an executive member of the largest MO rabbinical board.

    I guess the comments were too pointed for some and they therefore wanted to come up with some reason to ignore his message.

    #1153889
    mw13
    Participant

    R Gordimer is clearly identified as a MO rRabbi. He has smicha from what is the premier, if not only, MO Organization that issues smicha in the US. He is an executive member of the largest MO rabbinical board.

    I guess the comments were too pointed for some and they therefore wanted to come up with some reason to ignore his message.

    I do believe that there is an element of truth to that. It is always easier to shoot the messenger than to argue with the message.

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