January 27, 2023 1:15 pm at 1:15 pm #2160180Menachem ShmeiParticipant
I was very relieved to hear that the entire “kidnapping” incident was a misunderstanding. Thank you YWN for your quick coverage of the story and the mistake.
However, I was extremely saddened to see that while several major news outlets jumped on the story initially when the man was arrested, not one of them (besides for the frum outlets such as YWN) reported that it was a mistake.
Most notable is the New York Post which posted the avreich’s name and picture with a completely fabricated story which was clearly debunked when the cctv footage came out.
(They wrote: “When the child refused, he picked him up by the shoulders and tried to carry him out…” “[The mother] ripped her son from the man’s arms…” “The suspect ran off…” – all of this is compete nonsense. Check the footage.)
Why won’t the New York Post admit that they were too quick in their accusation, and that their story was fabricated? Are all news stories reported like this?
P.S. To all those commenters who are attacking this avreich for putting his hand on the boy’s shoulder for a few moments (with his consent):
What is your opinion regarding children joining a dancing circle at a wedding or Simchas Torah?
Must all the men immediately leave the circle lest they face arrest?January 27, 2023 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm #2160217
We have to slow down and not jump to conclusions, the mother, Shomruim and NYPD should be sued for everything they own, what is wrong with these people.January 27, 2023 4:40 pm at 4:40 pm #2160221
The New York Post got wind of the “story” from the so-called “frum” websites. The rest of the media got wind of it from the Post.January 27, 2023 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #2160257☕️coffee addictParticipant
“P.S. To all those commenters who are attacking this avreich for putting his hand on the boy’s shoulder for a few moments (with his consent):
What is your opinion regarding children joining a dancing circle at a wedding or Simchas Torah?
Must all the men immediately leave the circle lest they face arrest?“
I wasn’t one of them (I don’t remember) but over there is different because she didn’t know the guy whereas in shul usually the mispallelim know each otherJanuary 28, 2023 7:46 pm at 7:46 pm #2160275
For the record, not all charges were dropped. This individual should know not to touch any child without their parents permission (unless a life and death issue). Ergo I think there may be more to this story. There were adult males there who could have walked with the purported perp. Something is totally off about this story.January 28, 2023 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #2160404AviraDeArahParticipant
Not *every* from Jewish news outlet reported on it. Some are more cautious.
Also, what “duty” does a news outlet have to report the incident immediately, to make people aware of the individual, if the incident is over and the man is arrested? Who will he hurt in jail? Ywn should have done what certain other news outlets did and wait to hear the whole story before publishing anything at all. Instead, the race to be first with the news and get to clicks is more important.January 28, 2023 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #2160402
Menache, this was a child. A child cannot give consent to an adult. There appeared to be any number of adult males he could have asked.January 28, 2023 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #2160417
None of the feeble-minded who opined that there’s some kind of issue for an adult to lightly put his hand on the back of shirt of the shoulder of a teenager for the twenty seconds they walk through a very crowded hallway, addressed Menachem’s very pertinent point regarding whether you call 911 at every Chasuna you attend and at every Shul during Simchas Torah when adults put their hand on the back of a child or, the much worse crime of, holding a child’s hand in the dancing circles.
Every wedding and every Simchas Torah should be seeing dozens of men being led out in handcuffs.January 28, 2023 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #2160422
“What is your opinion regarding children joining a dancing circle at a wedding or Simchas Torah? Must all the men immediately leave the circle lest they face arrest??'”
No. If the parents of a child allow them to join the dancing, than they are providing consent for the child to be touched by others in the circle. In the other instance, there was no expectation by the mother than some guy would start shlepping her child towards the door. Whatever his motivation, he exercised very poor judgement.January 28, 2023 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #2160435nishtdayngesheftParticipant
I assume like everyone else, you saw the video. So you might want to explain why you say the person was shlepping this child. No such thing happened.January 28, 2023 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #2160431
Next thing you know some buffoon will have the old lady arrested because she held the hand of a teenager who helped her cross the street. Or have an adult arrested for having held a child’s hand to cross the street to their home after getting off the bus. Or having a neighbor arrested for giving a child a light congratulatory pat on the back for graduating elementary school.January 28, 2023 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #2160426
@Amil, ALL charges were dropped, you live in the PNW, you have no clue of what happened,
@GH “Whatever his motivation, he exercised very poor judgement.” ditto the mother and shomrimJanuary 28, 2023 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #2160427GadolHadofiParticipant
You have previously posted that this child is 11 or 12 and in the past few days he suddenly became a teenager? Will he be an adult tomorrow?January 29, 2023 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #2160597
Even if the young man was a “teenager” an adult still is not empowered to grab the hand and steer him towards the door so he can avoid what he perceives to be a halachic problem. Stop and spend 15 seconds explaining your “problem” to the bochur and get his OK. Otherwise, just stand and wait until the women move on or ask them to move to one side.
In general you don’t have an entitlement to invade anyone’s physical space absent some issue of sakanas nefesh. Same for some guys who “demand” to be re-seated on flights to avoid sitting between two women. Most of the time if you make the request to a flight attendant, and its not the last minute, they will make an effort to find “volunteers”. If not, just sit down wherever you are assigned and don’t make a fuss. Some airlines will allow you to purchase the seat next to you if you want a “guarantee” of an empty seat.January 29, 2023 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #2160575yaakov doeParticipant
The avreich should look into suing the NY Post for defamation. Their story differs greatly from the facts and he’s a private citizen.January 29, 2023 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #2160574besalelParticipant
Leave the mother alone. She did what she needed to do as a mother. I would rather live in a society where mothers protect their children and occasionally make mistakes than in a society where mothers have to think five times before calling the police. It was the police’s job to investigate before making an arrest and they failed to do so and it was the DA’s job to review the footage before bringing charges. The mother did her job as a mother.January 29, 2023 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #2160568Shlomo_123Participant
@commonsaychel shomrim had no fault in this they got a call from a crying mother that her someone tried to kidnapp her son so shomrim responded appropriately by finding the suspect and giving him to the NYPD the second you get a call like that you don’t have time to ask him what happened, and just because he’s Jewish it doesn’t mean his innocent most of the time yes but how are they supposed to know his intentions.January 29, 2023 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #2160543
CS, there is nothing in evidence to support your claim that ALL charges were dropped. Some charges were dropped. According to the ADAs office these two charges haven’t been dropped, PL 260. 10 01 and PL 135.05 00.January 30, 2023 9:24 am at 9:24 am #2160690
@AZ I stand corrected, the Brooklyn DA is still going after him on those two changes, those will be never impossible to prosecute because they require intent.
@Shlomo123, yes, I fault shomrim they are supposed to get the facts and not act like a lynch mob, people should stop funding them until all charges are dropped.
@besalal, the mother is 100% at fault here, take 5 minutes to find out what’s happened before ruining someone’s life foreverJanuary 30, 2023 9:32 am at 9:32 am #2160744
” the mother is 100% at fault here, take 5 minutes to find out what’s happened before ruining someone’s life forever…”
As others have said, the Mother acted normally and responsibly. This guy’s intent may have been “pure” but his actions were both unwise, and borderline illegal. If his reputation suffers, so be it. Next time he will act responsibly. Again, he doesn’t have an entitlement to grab someone’s hand w/o consent outside of a physical risk situation. There was NO risk here, no urgency just his personal convenience.January 30, 2023 11:26 am at 11:26 am #2160782Menachem ShmeiParticipant
You obviously didn’t watch the video, instead you are believing the fictional story told by NYP, CBS, Arutz Sheva, etc. (which, to the best of my knowledge, they STILL haven’t retracted).
The avraich did NOT grab his hand and steer him to the door. He spoke to him, explained him the problem, put his hand lightly on his shoulder, headed in the general direction of the door, left the child there and calmly exited the shul, kissing the mezuzah on his way out.
No grabbing hands, no shlepping, no running.
Most of the news story was fabricated. Check out the footage.January 30, 2023 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #2160914
Again, he basic issue is the person in question did not have permission to touch this child. There were plenty of men around to escort him to the door.
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