Reliable Hashgacha?

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  • #603964

    Has anyone heard of the hechsher CUP-K (not chaf-k)?

    What about KVH?

    Are they reliable?

    #1098466

    not heard of it but ask ur rav……

    #1098467

    Sam2
    Participant

    I believe I have heard that KVH is good. I believe that Kosherquest. com is a reliable website to list Hechsherim, from what I’ve been told.

    #1098468

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I’ve heard of them.

    #1098470

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    CRC (Chicago) doesn’t list either.

    #1098471

    shmoel
    Member

    Is cRc, Chicago, reliable?

    #1098472

    Kita Ches Rebbi
    Participant

    Rabbinical Council of New England (KVH)

    177 Tremont St., Boston, MA 02111

    617-426-2139, Fax-617-426-6268

    Rabbi Zalman Krems, Rabbinic Administrator

    I am told it is a reliable hashgacha. If you eat Kellog’s, you have relied on them yourself.

    #1098473

    hello99
    Member
    #1098474

    RABBAIM
    Participant

    Some say KVH on Kellogs is only reliable for non flavored cereals such as Corn Flakes, rice krispies, raisin bran and frosted flakes. Colored flavored relies on heterim not acceptable to all. Check it out

    #1098475

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Shmoel, are you reliable?

    #1098476

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Some say KVH on Kellogs is only reliable for non flavored cereals such as Corn Flakes, rice krispies, raisin bran and frosted flakes.

    Some say Kellogg’s has been checked independently of the KVH.

    #1098477

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Is cRc, Chicago, reliable?

    My contacts tell me that it’s a solid organization, and that their list of hechsheirim is used as reference by many kashrus organizations.

    #1098478

    rescue37
    Participant

    The words I was told by someone who asked someone (I will not name names) who is the head of a kashrus agency is that the cup-k (Israel Mayer Steinberg) is ma’achil treifos. He gives the “hechsher to Ben’s deli and othe places which are open on shabbos.

    #1098479

    LBK
    Participant

    I don’t know if cup-K is indeed Israel Mayer Steinberg, but I also heard a prominent Rov in flatbush publicly denounce rabbi steinberg as “Ma’achil treifos l’rabbim b’mayzid”

    #1098480

    Csar
    Member

    Some say Kellogg’s has been checked independently of the KVH.

    What good is “some say”? If you aren’t certain of its reliability, then it cannot be consumed.

    #1098481

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If you aren’t certain of its reliability, then it cannot be consumed.

    I assume you only eat from your own shechita.

    #1098482

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    DY – He can’t even eat from his own shechita, ??? ????? ??? ???.

    #1098483

    Csar
    Member

    DY: You missed the point entirely. You implied that KVH is unreliable on its own, by saying that some say Kellogg’s has been checked independently of the KVH. Yet, if it is unreliable and needs independent checking, what good is relying on purported independent checking, if you aren’t even certain that it is in fact independently checked!

    #1098484

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Csar,

    People I trust use Kellogg’s, and it appears on lists which I consider trustworthy. Nevertheless, one can’t extrapolate that the hechsher is reliable, because it might be okay despite, not because of, the hechsher.

    I actually have no specific knowledge about that hechsher, I don’t mean to imply that it’s not reliable, just that the general acceptance of Kellogg’s shouldn’t be a hechsher on the KVH.

    #1098485

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Yitayningwut,

    True 🙂

    #1098486

    mms601
    Participant

    Anyone know about the hashgacha SSK (Shield Star K)?

    #1098487

    abcd2
    Participant

    To Rabbaim and others:KVH/Rabbinical council of New England recently installed a whole new vaad. As part of the transition, the new vaad analyzed the Kashrus situation and clamped down on any laxities.

    The kashrus division of the Vaad oversees virtually all kosher stores in the boston area and is compromised of talmidie chachomim.

    #1098488

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Shield Star K aka Kosher Technical Konsultants is not on the cRc list. They claim to be completely Orthodox. Needs further research.

    #1098489

    sushee
    Member

    Is Triangle-K reliable? I heard that the rabbi who started T-K (the current rabbis father) did something chutzpadik to Rav Moshe, which is part of the reason the oilem doesn’t use T-K.

    Who gives a hechsher on Coke and Pepsi?

    #1098490

    yeshivaguy45
    Participant

    Does anyone know if the hashgacha KF from London is considered a reliable hashgacha? I’ve heard that it’s not the best and it’s only good for some things. I’ve seen it on candy (Vidal’s) and on american cereal in EY.

    #1098492

    Toi
    Participant

    the english bnei torah that ive spoken to say that its not lichatchila.

    #1098493

    yeshivaguy45
    Participant

    Toi- thanks.

    #1098494

    KVH is reliable. I have inside information since my husband worked as a mashgiach when he lived in Boston.

    #1098495

    kasher
    Participant

    To quote a former retailer- “An educated consumer is our best customer” (I know they went bankrupt but the slogan is still a good one). This is not the place- ask your Rov, local kashrus professional and others “in the know” that you trust.

    Biggest hechsher in the world?

    “KOKUSH” (in hebrew letters)- Kulam Ochlim Kulam Shotim

    (aka “everyone eats it”)

    #1098497

    Jersey Jew
    Participant

    If i tell you how i know, i give away my anonymity so please believe me when i say i know.

    KVH is now recommended. BH Rabbi Krems has done an outstanding job getting “farleslicha” mashgichim to review plants and actually conduct regular timely inspections, a must for providing proper hashgocha.

    “Cup-k” is NOT recommended. One must wonder if the name was chosen because it sounds so much like Kof-K – which is obviously reliable.

    cRc – Chicago Rabbinical Council – is recommended.

    KF – is acceptable.

    Tri-k remains UNacceptable.

    SSK aka Kosher Technical Konsultants out of Philly, is NOT accepted by any reputable agency. With apologies to Reb Doniel, NO ONE allows their product.

    #1098499

    yeshivaguy45
    Participant

    Kasher- in a way you’re right but here you at least get a picture if it’s a good hechsher.

    #1098500

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    If i tell you how i know, i give away my anonymity

    you mean you aren’t Mark Levin?

    #1098501

    Ruchi
    Participant

    As “Mark Levine” has posted, “SSK aka Kosher Technical Konsultants out of Philly, is NOT accepted by any reputable agency.” A few months ago, I personally did research into SSK. I have no reason to think that Rabbi Silver is not a wonderful individual. What I did find out is that he has not lived in Philly for years. Which raises the question, why someone would purport to be somewhere that he realistically is not? Is there something to hide? As mentioned by others, I also was informed by major kashrus organizations that this hechsher is not accepted by reputable agencies.

    #1098502

    rebdoniel
    Member

    Saying “no one” means nothing. If people didn’t allow it, his products wouldn’t be on the market. You mean the big 5 and their cohorts don’t allow it. It’s mostly politics.

    #1098503

    cherrybim
    Participant

    Best Rav Hamachshir is Rabbi David Shawel,Director of Kosher Supervision at Dallas Kosher.

    #1098504

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    It’s mostly politics.

    So it’s mostly kosher?

    #1098505

    WIY
    Member

    Rebdoniel

    Nothing beats pick and choose Judaism. Hey as long as you do Tikkun Chatzos right?

    #1098506

    stamer
    Member

    WIY: You mean “Tikkun Olam”.

    #1098507

    WIY
    Member

    Stamer

    That too. But rebdoniel does Tikkun Chatzos so it’s just rather funny putting it all together.

    #1098508

    yeshivaguy45
    Participant

    Mark Levin, what’s the difference between “recommended” and “acceptable?”

    #1098509

    rebdoniel
    Member

    The principle of ed echad ne’eman be issurin (and ne’emanut in general) says that if a Jew is a shomer shabbos, you trust his hashgacha. Smaller hechshers run by shomer shabbat rabbanim require the individual to ascertain whether those standards are acceptable to him, just as many individuals don’t even rely on the “big 5” for all things (e.g. those who believe tuna requires bishul yisrael wouldn’t purchase OU tuna fish, and so on).

    #1098510

    yeshivaguy45
    Participant

    rebdoniel, the way it was explained to me by someone in the kashrus field is as follows. There are many different types of doctors out there. For some types of doctors if you tell him you’re sick, they’ll tell you “take two aspirin and call me in the morning.” Those types of doctors aren’t really doctors. They have no idea what they’re talking about. The person next to you could have told you the same thing. However there are other doctors that you could go to and tell them you’re sick and they’ll look at your symptoms and see how sick you are and they’ll diagnose you and offer treatment. Those doctors know what they’re doing. This is the same thing with kashrus. Some people call themselves mashgichim and say “I know kashrus, it’s easy.” In reality, however, they have no idea what to look for. There are other people that learn Hilchos Kashrus, know all the Chumras and kulas, and they are reliable Mashgichim.

    #1098511

    rebdoniel
    Member

    I hear your point. People have different standards. As I said, some Jews won’t touch OU tuna fish. Others won’t touch Rabbanut gelatin, so on and so forth. People ought to become familiar with different shitos, though. They should understand, practically and textually, issues such as whether I can wash meat and milk dishes together or in the same sink or dishwasher, or the issues pertaining to intentional bitul, or to gevinat akum, or to gelatin, or whatever the issue is.

    #1098512

    Yes it too much reliable

    #1098513

    hwarren1949
    Member

    I can say that I called a butcher upstate, an hour from me (the closest), and he said Israel Mayer Steinberg (who is, indeed, the Cup-K) certified him, AND SOLD HIM HIS MEAT! (Can you say conflict of interest?) When someone in my synagogue asked about another shop certified by Rabbi Steinberg, the authority asked said, “Better he should buy his meat in Monsey.” That’s a polite way of saying, “I wouldn’t.”

    #1098514

    Jersey Jew
    Participant

    Yeshivaguy45

    My bad. Agencies that are willing to comment on the reliability of other certifiers, don’t want to use the word acceptable, and they instead use the word recommended. This is for legal reasons going back to the Harold Sharfman days owning the KOAOA where he tried suing everyone and their mother for saying that the half moon k symbol was not acceptable. Granted once he died his son was able to steer the agency into acceptability and it was then purchased by the OU.

    Bottom line is it’s a legalese thing.

    #1289311

    Joseph
    Participant

    As a general rule regarding any specific hechsher, how could consumers know whether it is reliable or unreliable?

    #1289313

    yehudayona
    Participant

    CYLOR?

    #1289345

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    The problem is that commercial entities can’t post a list of “bad hechshers,” for legal reasons which makes it a lot harder to determine. We, as a forum, could actually do such a thing; maybe this deserves a spinoff thread. The list that I know of would be:
    Triangle K
    Tablet K
    Torch K
    Cup K (I just learned here. Never seen it before)

    Any others?

    #1289348

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    I still can’t get over rebdoniel’s assertion that the fact that a hechsher stays in business proves that it’s reliable. Is it even worth responding to such comments?

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