January 14, 2010 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #591102
Can anyone give a clear definition of what Kashrus companies consider a reliable mashgiach in a restaurant? When would there need to be a Mashgiach Temidi, and when would it be ok to just have a Mashgiach walk in unannounced occasionally?January 15, 2010 1:35 am at 1:35 am #672919
What are the basic standards according to the shulchan oruch that every kashrus organization would require as their bottom line reliability, chumros aside?January 15, 2010 3:03 am at 3:03 am #672920baal kishronParticipant
it is extremely hard to define what is necessary chumros aside because most of what we do kashruswise is based on a set of chumros and kulos (of course there are many things set in stone)and it is really up to the rav hamachshir what to allow or not to allow based on his understanding of the situation at hand. this is why many vaad hakashrus organizations put the name of the rav hamachshir on every publication etc because that is really who decides the policies. I worked as a mashgiach in caterers kitchen for several months so i got an idea of what goes on(not the authority on the matter but some insight)January 15, 2010 3:48 am at 3:48 am #672921bombmaniacParticipant
hmmm…i can try and get the official COR and/or OU guidelines…January 15, 2010 6:59 am at 6:59 am #672922aries2756Participant
Are you aware that having a mashgiach in a glatt kosher restaurant only became a requirement less than 20 years ago? Are any of you aware of what happened to require this? I am curious to see your responses.
In the mean time it depends on whether it is a milchig or fleishig restaurant and if it is owned by a Frum Jew or not. It also makes a difference if the frum owner is always there or if he has a frum manager there or not. If there is no one frum at the restaurant then they usually require a mashgiach temidi. If there is they may only require a yotzei v’nichnas. It also depends if they serve lettuce and other vegetables that need to be checked. In that case they may require a temidi because they make it his job to check the vegetables.
Does anyone know what type of training on needs to go through to become a mashgiach? I am also curious if anyone knows this.January 15, 2010 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #672923
Most places have no training to be a restaurant mashgiach, except for how to check vegetables. A friend of mine was a restaurant mashgiach in high school. Your job is to be vigilant, not to be a rabbi. Standards have crept upwards in recent years when the old ones were no longer reliable. The loss of the shtetl structure has meant that just saying “eid echad ne’eman beissurin, trust the owner” is no longer reliable.
A good vaad or kashrus organization will require a mashgiach temidi for fleishig places, require that only the mashgiach has the keys to the meat freezer, and require the mashgiach to check up on all purchases.January 15, 2010 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #672924
What happens to an establishment that has a frum owner, with no mashgiach temidi, and the owner leaves town for two weeks? Who is relied upon?January 15, 2010 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #672925
Who is relied upon when you have a goyishe babysitter or cleaning lady with no checking up other than a stern “don’t use the kictchen” warning, and both husband and wife reliably out of the house all day?
It’s a rhetorical question, of course. Halachically goyim have no mirsas so your house is treif. Same with the store.January 15, 2010 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #672926
To address the rehtorical question–B”H we never had a goyishe babysitter, and never had a goyishe cleaning lady in our home without one of us home the entire time. We’re not “into” much cleaning help.
So, are you saying that if the restaurant doesn’t have someone temidi then it can’t be halachikly relied upon, or is that a chumrah?January 17, 2010 1:25 am at 1:25 am #672927
No hashgacha whatsover for two weeks? If that really is true then it’s a problem. Factories are different.January 17, 2010 2:08 am at 2:08 am #672928charliehallParticipant
I don’t have an answer to this, but the local vaad in my community does not have a mashgiach tamidi in any of the stores or restaurants it supervises. Instead, a mashgiach visits every establishment every single day. I’ve talked with several owners and they really like how it works as the mashgichim are well trained and their staff is familiar with them.January 17, 2010 2:18 am at 2:18 am #672929aries2756Participant
There are rules and agreements with the Vaad that you are connected to. And don’t forget that if you don’t have a temidi you still have a yotzei v’nichnas who will realize that you are gone and you will lose your hechsher. If you know that you will be away for a period of time or you know that you are ill and will be out a day or two it is your responsibility to call the vaad and get a mashgiach temidi to fill in for you and yes PAY them. If you don’t the VAAD will consider you unreliable and either take away your hechsher or take away your keys and require that you have a full time temidi.
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