Replacing Talis and Retzuos (on Tefilin)

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  • #1391293

    slominer
    Participant

    From your experience or knowledge, after how long of usage of a new Talis or Retzuos have you found it necessary to replace? (Disregarding replacing them just because you feel like it, even though it wasn’t necessary.) In other words, how long after one’s Bar Mitzvah is it typical for new Retzuos to be needed and how long after one’s Chasuna is it typical for a new Talis to be needed?

    #1391314

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Obviously depends on several factors. First and most obvious, a big difference if you daven with tallis/tfillin daily (x/Shabbos/yom tov), replacement will be more frequent than someone who is less frum. For YWN readers, who most likely are the “daily” users, a second factor is simply your own personal habits in putting on talis/tfillin. The reality is some of us are simply “harder” users and put stress on the materials than others in the ways we put on/take off. Third, climate and storage make a big difference (dar/dry cool versus sunlight and UV/ high humidity/high temperature). Finally, the quality of the materials and workmanship in the original tallis/tfillin is a big factor. Even though “kosher”, there is a big difference in the range of products that are sold.

    #1391348

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    GH: Nice synopsis.

    My personal experience:

    My original retzuos lasted almost 40 years before they had to be replaced. If there are cracks or they start to shrivel they should be checked by a sofer.

    Talis – Shabbos tallis –if taken care of properly 20 -25 years. Weekday tallis 10 – 15 years.

    #1391375

    Joseph
    Participant

    What did you do with your original Retzuos and Tallis after you replaced them?

    #1391377

    thinker123
    Participant

    Just a thought. People tend to spend money on mitzvos that come a few times a year, for example lulav and esrog, but mitzvos that we do every single day, we tend to “karg”. It is not right. The mitzvah of tefilin is a very important mitzvah, even thou in some instances after many years its still kosher, but its usually not nice, (and in many cases i have seen unkosher). I feel that if we would cherish the mitzvah, we would “upgrade” them more often.

    #1391381

    Shtika
    Participant

    There is no real gender, if you see white spots/cracks in the rezuos, you should take them to a so sofer, they might need a replacement

    #1391400

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    thinker123: What does “karg” mean? I am also not sure what you mean by “not nice” especially with tefillin. I have had my tefillin checked a number of times since my bar-mitzvah, including the retzuos, and was never told that they were pasul or not mehudar. 3 or 4 years ago I noticed that the retzuos of my shel rosh was cracking and was told to replace them. I was told that my retzuos of the shel yad were kosher and just needed “blackening”. As for my tallis, i have replaced both my weekday and shabbos tallis twice since getting married.

    Joseph: The sofer kept the retzuos so I do not know what he actually did with them but I would think they are shaimos. I still have the old talleisim.

    #1391454

    DovidBT
    Participant

    “What did you do with your original Retzuos and Tallis after you replaced them?”

    Megillah 26b seems to classify tzitzis as “tashmishei mitzvah” (“objects used for a mitzvah”) that may be thrown in the garbage, and retzuos as “tashmishei k’dushah” (“objects which are accessory to sacred items”) that require “hiding in a safe place.”

    Is that correct?

    #1391580

    thinker123
    Participant

    thinker123: What does “karg” mean?
    Its Yiddish for being stingy. (I’m not sure if that’s what you want to know).
    My point is that usually after a couple of years the retzuas are worn out and peeling\cracked. Its possible to repaint them but they still wouldn’t look as new. Look, When a suit gets worn out we get a new one. I feel that the same should be with retzuas. You may disagree, its just my opinion.

    #1391768

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    thinker123: I never heard of the word yiddish word “karg”. As for retzuos, which are relatively inexpensive compared to the “batim” (I think I paid $30 – $40 to replace my retzuos shel rosh), do they have to “look new”? If in your eyes they are no longer mehudar replace them. My retzuos did not have a major issue but since the sofer suggested it, I had them blackened.

    #1391787

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “I feel that if we would cherish the mitzvah, we would “upgrade” them more often….You may disagree, its just my opinion.”

    I dod disagree. Here is another perspective: People become attached to their Tefillin we wear them day in and day out, when going on a trip it is the one thing we always make sure we have there is a certain chavivus that develops (or should develop). Dito for a tallis tha is worn day in and day out as we serve the Ribbon shelo olam. This is why it is the generally the weekday talis (worn more often and usually for longer time) that is used to wrap a nifter which he “wears” in the olam haemes after having worn it for years in this world.
    They should not be merely upgraded and discarded (obviously in a proper manner) for no good reason.
    OBviously if they are no longer kosher, or only kosher bedieved that is another story. But I think there is something beautiful about a well worn tallis, and there is no reason to “upgrade” it.

    #1391795

    Joseph
    Participant

    Are there not many people who yarshen a Talis and/or Tefilin from their father, grandfather, great-grandfather, etc., and proudly wear many decades or a century or more after it was first used by their zeidas?

    #1391823

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Joseph: Tefillin are yarshened more so then taleisim. Taleisim tend to “yellow” with age.

    #1391843

    apushatayid
    Participant

    im using the same retzuos for 35 years. as long as my soifer says they are kasher lichatchila there is no reason imo to replace them.

    #1392127

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    For many, the most frequent “adjustment’ is that the shel rosh doesn’t “fit correctly” for those whose physical dimensions have grown substantially from their bar mitzvah. I agree entirely with the insanity of paying seveal hundred dollars for a Calabrian esrog, an equally large sum for an “Egyptian Talis” (which in all likelihood may come from one of several countries where shatnes continues to be a problem) but still “KARGING” for a few dollar discount on an already “low-end” set of tfillin.

    #1392181

    thinker123
    Participant

    Gadolhadorah-
    Im happy that at least someone agrees with me! (And knows what “to karg” means!)

    #1397700

    Sorry for bumping this thread from last week.

    ubiquitin wrote: “This is why it is the generally the weekday tallis (worn more often and usually for longer time) that is used to wrap a nifter which he “wears” in the olam haemes after having worn it for years in this world.”

    I cannot say what is “generally done” but the Nitei Gavriel brings down that some say the shabbos tallis and some say the weekday tallis. (Hilchos Aveilus 47:10)

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46539&st=&pgnum=241

    He also states that in EY, they carry the meis with his tallis do not bury with the tallis. (Hilchos Aveilus 47:7)

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46539&st=&pgnum=240

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