July 25, 2017 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #1325100
How long before YWN is threatened and bullied to delete this respectful open letter about the lavish event in the holy Ir Hatorah of Lakewood on Monday night?
Me thinks 20 minutes.
You can molest children and they won’t say a word. But Chas veshaolom to question what they did last night? #Appalling
This is not meant to bash BMG or even its CEO, but this was plain and simple an example of being menuval berishus hatoira. This all started years ago when the Yeshiva allowed a newcomer to the Yeshiva to promote his idea for a Chinese auction called “HOME”. Inside the fancy book were examples of opulent prizes that most of us could not use let alone understand. What could a lakewood resident do with a crystal chandelier that cost as much as a townhouse? A booklet filled with prizes so outrageously oppulent that a true Jewish home had no use for. No trips to Israel, no shaitels or tuition payments. The person that was responsible for the booklet was obviously out of touch with the reality of a typical lakewood person. Now fast forward 15 years later. That person obviously thinks that he has changed lakewood to fit his hashkofos. But it seems we aren’t ready for his idea of what judaism is about. We live with the concept of tznius. Tznius is not just about skirt length and denier thickness on tights. It encompasses who and what we all are . Both men and women. Yet we have lost our way in true tznius. We think we own Lakewood and can build whatever we want even if it inconveniences others. We think we can get as much government money even if it makes others upset. We can build homes as opulent as we can afford with no regard to how we are perceived. And we can make a party with every delicious victual we can stuff down our throats during a week that we should be remembering the single worst time in the history of judaism. How crass it is for the premier makom Torah to promote and enable such an event with a siyum. I am even more disgusted by those defending this. Was the candied bacon served to commemorate the pig brought into the bais hamikdosh?
The menu was not changed. The Acapella singers and the wine were cancelled last minute. Those defending this event obviously have no idea what true judaism is .They think that yiddishkite is purely capitalist. But its not . We have a limit of what we are allowed to do in all areas of life.
Including fundraising.July 25, 2017 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #1325112
Where is this party being advertised?July 25, 2017 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #1325119
Well Achdus….maybe this is to be misakeyn the Seuda of Kamtza-Bar Kamtza…. they didn’t throw anyone out!
Why all this complaining and criticism… just because you don’t agree with the presentation of an event doesn’t mean you have to go on a tirade of…Fifteen Years Ago…Getting Money From The Government… Building Opulent Homes…????
Please calm down.
If you have an issue why don’t you bring it up directly calmly & respectfully to to those who arranged this event.
I wish you and all of YWN that you should be zoche to binyan beis hamikdash bimheyra biyameinu.July 25, 2017 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #1325124
Joseph: Somewhere on “social media”. It was reported in the CR but was deleted by a moderator.
While I will not comment on whether this “siyum” was lavish or not, one can hold “siyum” during the nine days. The Ramah states it in 551:10 and the Mishna Berurah elaborates in SK 73, 75-78.
I also question why someone has to make it on Rosh Chodesh when (by the Ashkenazim) the nine days just started. I wonder why he couldn’t make the siyum on Sunday……probably because his chevra were in the Catskills.July 25, 2017 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1325128
Philly YidMemberJuly 25, 2017 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #1325129
☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Lol respectful.July 25, 2017 2:28 pm at 2:28 pm #1325140
Philly Yid, how do you know they actually served that?
Maybe they changed to pareve last minute but the wood engravers didn’t have time to make new menus.July 25, 2017 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #1325143
Avram in MDParticipant
Maybe they all ordered the fish. Or maybe sefardi guy persuaded them with his brilliant arguments in this thread to adopt Sefardic minhagim, so they’re eating meat through Shabbos Devarim (sorry, Shabbat).July 25, 2017 2:36 pm at 2:36 pm #1325151
Oh stop it @meno
It was a full blown fleishig party. Like a Seuda fit for a king. I mean baalei batim. Ever hear the expression “chazir fiisel”? That’s what this party was. This isn’t the legacy of Der Zaida Reb aharon zatzl. Did they ask the Lakewood Posek if it was mutar? Rav Forscheimer?
Not one Yungerman respects the leadership anymore. And they can thank themselves for that.July 25, 2017 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1325148
I am not the posek of the organizers of the event, nor did they ask me for my opinion, so I will not give it. I will say, the insinuation that the Rma with MB would endorse planning such an event for the 9 days is misleading, at best.July 25, 2017 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1325149
lost in EuropeParticipant
I live out of town so I am a bit clueless. But from what I read in the newspapers about the recent chill hashem, and so many people in need, I really don’t understand the need for “crispy lamb belly” and “roasted tongue .” I think if they just took the catering money for their fund and not to the caterers, they would have done a good deal!July 25, 2017 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #1325150
“probably because his chevra were in the Catskills”
Wouldnt it make sense to hold such an event when the chevra is around to attend?July 25, 2017 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #1325160
A siyum is muttar if you happen to finish in the 9 days it clearly states you are not allowed to schedule a siyum for the sake of having meat in the 9 daysJuly 25, 2017 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #1325165
I remember learning that when making a siyum during the 9 days, one shouldn’t invite extra people. I believe the language used is that one should only invite those who would be invited if the siyum were made at a different time of year.
The Rav who gave the shiur where I heard this said that there are restaurants who have someone come in every night of the 9 days to make a siyum, so that they can sell their usual menus, and not lose a week’s worth of business. He said this is 100% wrong, as in many cases, you don’t know the person making the siyum at all!July 25, 2017 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #1325171
🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
I’ll bear this in mind before I schedule my next lavish event. Oh, wait, I don’t do any. What’s the point here? Is anyone here on the CR (apart from CTLawyer) considering hosting a fancy party? What’s the toeles here?July 25, 2017 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #1325176
I think the lesson to be learned here is that if you’re making a lavish fleishig party during the 9 days, you shouldn’t do it in a transparent tent.
With the fancy drone cameras they have these days, they can get a great bird’s eye view and see exactly which table is the siyum table, which table is empty, etc.July 25, 2017 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #1325182
☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Ever hear the expression “chazir fiisel”?
Is that what the candied bacon is made out of?July 25, 2017 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #1325193
“Where is this party being advertised?”
shushan gazetteJuly 25, 2017 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #1325211
well said!!July 25, 2017 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #1325232
“Those defending this event obviously have no idea what true judaism is .They think that yiddishkite is purely capitalist. But its not . We have a limit of what we are allowed to do in all areas of life.”
Cmon man. I agree with some of the points you made, i just dont believe you want a respectful discussion “during a week that we should be remembering the single worst time in the history of judaism.” I believe this is just incitement, like your other post https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/another-ezras-nashim-horror-story/#post-1291924
You use achdus as your username but it sounds like its supposed to be taken ironically.July 25, 2017 3:50 pm at 3:50 pm #1325226
I wonder what a sous vide egg yolk looks likeJuly 25, 2017 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #1325242
APY: I was not as you stated “the insinuation that the Rma with MB would endorse planning such an event for the 9 days is misleading, at best” All i was stating was that one can make a siyum in the nine days (as i shared the link in another thread).July 25, 2017 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #1325268
” Is anyone here on the CR (apart from CTLawyer) considering hosting a fancy party? ”
Atty. and Mrs. CTL will be hosting a chasunah for their youngest daughter the Sunday after the three weeks are over.
Will it be lavish?
Considering it’s an outdoor BBQ on our grounds I don’t think it will be as lavish as those in the Weddings halls or hotels of NYC.
Women will not be in long gowns, men will not be in formal wear.
I’m sure many will eat some of the BBQ with their fingers.
Yes, there will be a live band, not a DJ
Ample Beer, wine and booze will flow, but crystal, fine china and sterling flatware will be nowhere to be seen.
What will be lavish is the love we have for our daughter and future son-in-law.
The entire guest list will be less than 225, none of those 700 person events like in Brooklyn, Monsey and Lakewood.
The nature of a BQQ is such that guests will go to buffet serving stations to choose their food, no white gloved French service at your seat.
I have smoked and cured much of the meat/poultry myself in our backyard smokehouse. I’ll also be doing quite a bit of the cooking. Three good friends of mine who compete on the kosher BBQ circuit will be manning the fires that day. I’ve hired bartenders and service personnel through the union local. There is no caterer running the show. Mrs. CTL comes from a family of bakers. Retired great aunt and uncle are baking and decorating the wedding cake in our kitchens.
This is the affair my daughter wants, at home and relaxed. It will be done in good taste and not over the top.
Leftover food is being delivered to a local soup kitchen in Bridgeport to be served to those in need.
Lavish? I don’t think so. I never heard a BBQ called fancyJuly 25, 2017 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #1325271
I so need to move to lakewood. I like roasted Tounge along with some Ribe Eyed SteakJuly 25, 2017 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #1325284
Once again, the EDITORIAL staff of THEYESHIVAWORLD.COM has revealed EDITORIAL incompetence, as well as the lack of depth and understanding of proper Jewish life. An EDITORIAL is supposed to be a coherent statement that demonstrates an opinion related to a news item. It can also be a general commentary on any area of life and interest to the readers. In deference to you, it seems that you desired to write an opinion commentary that is opposed to lavish fundraisers particularly in Orthodox Jewish circles.
You surreptitiously labeled your article, “Respectful Discussion About Lavish Fleshing (Alcoholic) Event By BMG.” No doubt this was an attempt to get readers to the article by referring to it as “Respectable.” Once inside the article, we are subjected to wild rants that seem more personal than intellectual. you come with a hodgepodge of cliches and throw them at the organizers of the Yeshiva dinner, whom have undoubtedly discussed these issues with the Roshei Yeshiva, who are far more understanding than your editorial staff.
Perhaps you are better suited for a position with the NY TIMES or WaPo joining with anti-Trump Ranters, rather than a commentator of Jewish values.
Shame on you for you arrogant presumptuousness.
Why not start again and write a truly respectable article that will engender truly respectable debate. I am sure that if you would call the Roshei HaYeshiva to “respectably” discuss your concerns they would be happy to attempt to respectably assuage your concerns.
Respectfully and sincerely,
TzafniJuly 25, 2017 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #1325300
Tzafni, this has nothing to do with the editorial staff of the yeshiva world. This is the coffee room. It’s a public forum. Anyone can start a topicJuly 25, 2017 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #1325316
what about tarivas anoshim and noshim. and please dont say its only family because its 2 families mergingJuly 25, 2017 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #1325340
@tzafni – Perhaps you are unaware but this is the YWn Coffee Room, an open forum where hundreds of thousands of threads have been ongoing for years and years. Your post is so off base. I have nothing to do with YWN whatsoever.July 25, 2017 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #1325343
What’s a fleshing event? Do I want to know?July 25, 2017 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #1325364
Notwithstanding your misguided attack on YWN who has nothing to do with the lead post in this thread, your comment is a whole lot of hogwash.
The lead post was easily as respectful as your post and seemingly even more so.
Additionally, you do not want anybody contacting the Roshei Yeshiva about this.
Rav Malkiel was shipped there by his Brother-In-Charge, Aaron. After the world found out about the event and there was an uproar, he asked that they tone down the event. So they cancelled the choir. The alcohol wad not cancelled. A large purchase of alcohol was made at The Vineyard several hours before the event, and although it was not left openly on the tables, there was alcohol served and available.
Reb Yeruchem was furious about the event, and he will tell you the same if you ask him.
The optics of this event were about as bad as any negative PR that BMG has ever received.
From the unnecessarily grandiose invitation, to the lavish seuda of basar v’yayin during the nine days, and all the way to the widely circulated message from the organizers calling those who were not invited “less fortunate”, this event was a disaster and a bizayon for Lakewood.
Do the people who made this event really believe that throwing a party like this is really serve for the betterment of Klal Yisroel? I somehow doubt it…..July 25, 2017 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #1325377
#notmyyeshivaJuly 26, 2017 3:42 am at 3:42 am #1325398
Achdus -“This is not meant to bash BMG or even its CEO, but this was plain and simple an example of being menuval berishus hatoira.”
Maybe that’s what you meant, but it sure comes out that way!July 26, 2017 3:42 am at 3:42 am #1325387
I’m curious what limud a siyum was made on, for such a large seudas mitzva to be arranged and so many guests to be invited.July 26, 2017 5:25 am at 5:25 am #1325426
Last weeks haftara
וילכו אחר ההבל ויהבלו
its a seasonal thing, chillJuly 26, 2017 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #1325737
In Flatbush similar things go on from various tzedakahs
As a general rule I blacklist any tzedakah that organizes an event like this because it clearly is against the halacha. If they violate halacha why should I trust them with my money?
If the head of the tzedakah doesn’t officially organize it, don’t assume they had anything to do with it. People just want an excuse to do this, so they create a function to benefit a tzedakah that makes it “kosher by association”.
I personally once contacted a Rav whose name was on an ad for one of these functions, and asked him how on earth he can endorse something that is kneged halacha. He told me that he was furious that they used his name without permission.
Bottom line, I don’t believe that the Roshei Yeshiva of BMG had anything to do with this. People do what they want and lie all the time.
Kol hamisavel al yerushalyim will IYH be zoceh to see yerushalyim rebuilt.July 27, 2017 12:22 pm at 12:22 pm #1326521
It is worthwhile to gwt a hold of Rav Avrohom Shorrs speech to those who were in attendance at the annual Yeshiva Torah Vodaas, 9 days chizuk gathering (I believe that is what they call it – it is worthwhile to hear what Rav Reisman said too). I am not going to offer a synopsis of what he said, dont bother asking me. A synopsis wont do it justice anyway. Get a hold of a recording (they gave away copies after the gathering last night) and listen to the whole thing.July 27, 2017 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #1326879
I am reminded about what R’ Belsky zt”l wrote regarding A Capella music:
Lately, it has become a trend to take every possible pleasure that one can think of and figure out ways to make them permissible at all times. Whether it is the imitation of non-kosher foods, making all chometzdike delicacies kosher l’Pesach, or other similar things, we find this attitude now more than ever. People cannot live for one minute with compromising on pleasures that they are used to or wish to experience. Often, the heteirim to permit such activities are, at best, based on very weak reasoning.
One such example is the desire to listen to music during Sefirah and The Three Weeks. It has become a trend to produce “Sefirah tapes,” referred to musically as “a cappella“. The wide acceptance of such tapes has not been with rabbinic approval. Indeed, many of the gedolei rabbonim have ruled that one should not listen to this type of music during Sefirah and The Three Weeks. Unfortunately, because the music albums are being sold in the stores, people think that they must be glatt kosher. If they aren’t acceptable, people say, why would a Jewish store sell them?
His words regarding this likely apply to massive siyumim/events as well. The 9 Days are a time for mourning – not finding ways around the rules.July 27, 2017 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #1327025
Like that Italian food called pizza?July 28, 2017 10:09 am at 10:09 am #1327523
My Mashgiach in EY once gave a fiery shmooze about the 4/5 ths of klal yisrael that didn’t make it out of mitzrayim. He argued that why should we assume that we are any different? If a person is attached to his gashmiyous why would he assume that he will be zocheh to see EY rebuilt? In shmonei esrei when you daven for yerushalyim do you have in mind that when you hear the shofer you will run out of your fancy home with the front door left wide open? or would you find it difficult to drop everything and run to the airport?
I enjoy gashmious like the next guy, but our struggle needs to be to not get attached to it.July 28, 2017 10:55 am at 10:55 am #1327549
The seforim also say that something like 4/5ths won’t make it to the geula when Moshiach comes.
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