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When did ywn become anti Satmer?
It’s not. I’ve written plenty of posts about Satmar that they haven’t allowed through. YWN is anti-Modern Orthodox, not anti-Satmar.
Since when is it assur to disagree with Satmar
I’m anti-Satmar and anti-Viszhnitz, but my thoughts here in no way represent the views and opinions of Yeshiva World News Coffee Room.
YWN’s editorial policy appears to reflect the dominant viewpoints of Boro Park / Flatbush, which means it tends to be sympathetic with Satmar and the Modern Orthodox/Religious Zionists on many but not all issues.
Apparently it’s not that anti-Satmar since my relatively benign post was not approved.
If that was rather benign, I don’t think I’d like to see what you consider malignant.
Why should anyone want to write against any religious group? What’s the great idea? I’m in no way Satmer, still I’d not bashmutz them. Chafetz Chaim says maligning a group is so more severe than an individual.
Some people think speaking ill of those more or less religious than them is muttar.
DY: They don’t think it’s Muttar. They seem to think that it’s a Mitzvah and that it can be Doche 30+ Asehs and Lo Sa’asehs.
DaasYochid:
Interesting thought (oh no) I had over Shabbos.
The ???? says ????? ???? .. ?? ????? ???? ??????. There are two ways to explain. One, Rashi (and Medrash), they’re referring to Tziporah, and they were dismayed at Moshe’s apparent “holier then thou” attitude. The other view, Rashbam and others, states they were referring to the queen of Kush, whom they gave to Moshe to remarry (he did not). So according to this view they were dismayed at Moshe’s abandon, his liberty due to his lofty position…
Two opposing views.. so relevant today.. Either too religious or too lax.
YWN is anti-Modern Orthodox, not anti-Satmar.
I highly doubt that YWN is anti-MO being as the greater percentage by far of posters here are MO.
Well, that’s how YWN and some posters allow negative posts. Simply label them as MO and then it’s allowed.
State the exact same view about Satmar (even though it’s backed by 99.9%) and it does not get through.
Satmar, Vizhnitz, Belz and Ger are organizations. As an organization, they can be criticized. People who happen to shtam from Stamar, Vizhnitz etc. blood are simply chassidim and cannot be criticized based on who they are.
The criticisms I have on Satmar and Vizhnitz in particular have nothing to do with how they treat halacha, mesora and Yiddishkeit in general. It has to do with how the organizations are run and their official policies and reactions regarding certain things. The fact that I disagree with many of these policies, many of which are quite dangerous in both ruchniyus and gashmiyus, (some of which I have personally witnessed) and find little value in the good that they do, makes me an anti-Satmar and anti-Vizhnitzer.
SL1: The failed Moser and Rodeph is not just anti-Chareidi, he’s anti-Frum in general.
“the anti chareidi site failedmessiah”
I couldn’t hold back from commenting on this.
you call that trash anti chareidi?
It is anti religious, and actually anti anything jewish at all. It is full of hate,
assumes any thing negative in the news must be true but really worse than reported and twists any news at all into anti jewish propaganda whenever it can.
However, I do find it useful for news about chareidim that is not reported on in chareidi media like molestation cases.
I don’t find it useful at all, because it isn’t reliable.
Therefore, if it is something I already know, then I already know about it. And if it is something I don’t already know, then I don’t know when he is twisting things so I don’t know what to believe.
So all in all, useless.
SL1: There are blogs out there which accurately convey the information you’re interested in (or so I’m told, I’m not holding in the whistle-blower-but-pro-Frum blogosphere). He’s not one of them.
Some people think speaking ill of those more or less religious than them is muttar.
This is a myth, and no-one is allowed to attack a Jew for his believes or/& conviction to observe Yom ha’Atzmaut &/or Yom Yerusholayim.
However, when someone is “Yotzo MiKellal Amisecho” they don’t enjoy the perks of being a Fellow Jew. Someone who socializes with Arab Leaders [including someone dressed as a Chareidi Jew} has alienated himself from the true genuine Jewish flock.
147, you’re probably not serious.
But if you are serious, I presume you were not aware that the Chzaon Ish held that a person who keeps Torah and mitzvos, but celebrates Israel’s Yom HaAtzmaut, is an apikores. Whereas the N”K extremists have not done any such thing. So much for that…
So, while attacking a Jewish tinok shNishba over this heresy is probably not a correct approach, this does not change the heretical nature of Zionism.
HaKatan, do you have a source for that claim about the Chazon Ish?
As for Satmar, while they may not be Apikorsim, I do know one thing: Hashem does nit like it when brothers fight in the streets outside the cemetery on the yartzeit of their father.
NK were expelled from Satmar
Meeting with abedinejad and denying the holocaust was too much for most of their leadership
NK were expelled from Satmar
Meeting with abedinejad and denying the holocaust was too much for most of their leadership
I presume you were not aware that the Chzaon Ish held that a person who keeps Torah and mitzvos, but celebrates Israel’s Yom HaAtzmaut, is an apikores
Hakatan, Does this apikorsus status apply to the Ponevezh Yeshiva? They proudly fly the Israeli Zionist flag every Y”H.
While we are at it why don’t you admit the Chazon Ish never said such a thing. And how dare you make up quotes by gedolim just to further your misguided agenda! Edited
musser zoger: Calm down and don’t feed the (rather small) troll…..
musser zoger: He’s taking a page from Satmar. They make up quotes from R’ Chaim Kanievsky, he makes up quotes from the Chazon Ish.
He’s completed obsessed with bashing Zionism. You could start a thread about anything, and he’d find a way to bring Zionism into it.
Zdad: not that it was too much for their leadership, but explicitly against the Satmar shittah. Satmar Rebbe ZT”L did not condone even the perception of working with the Muslims against the State of Israel. At a picketing against the medina, when Arabs also showed up with signs against Israel, he was asked how to proceed by his followers. The answer “shoin avek-gein” (“leave immediately” for our non Yiddish speakers.)
zsdad: They were never expelled from Satmar. In fact, the Neteurei Karta was never part of Satmar. The NK are Litvaks. They descend from the Talmidim of the GRA that moved to Eretz Yisroel. Their Shuls daven Nusach Ashkenaz, unlike the Chasidim.
These [people] [of authority]
Rabbi Elchonon Wasserman once said:
“It is certain as the sun shines that the Land will vomit the Zionists out, because the Land is the Palace of the King….I don’t say this either to curse or to bless, but because these are things which are written in the Torah and which will take place.”
The Chazon Ish once said:
“If it is hard to understand the whole matter of the Golden Calf, by seeing the matter of the State, one can understand it. The matter of the State is similar to the Golden Calf
Rabbi Chaim Soloveitchik once said:
“The Zionists aren’t taking Jews away from Judaism in order to have a State, THEY NEED A STATE IN ORDER TO TAKE JEWS AWAY FROM JUDAISM”
Regardless of your view, we should at least have a new rule where you only quote statements made after 1948. Anything made before is irrelevant.
Also, once we’re making up quotes, some famous gadol said that sharing truth is the best.
However, his English is not that good and he meant to say that Truthsharer is the best.
HaKatan and co: Look up SHU”T Yabiya Omer OC 6:41 and 42. Then either call R’ Ovadia out for being an Apikores in much stronger terms than anyone from the RCA ever did or admit that those who celebrate Yom Ha’atzma’ut have what to rely on. Until you do either of those things, stop talking.
Regarding what Rav Chaim said: If that is true, why is there more Torah being learned in Israel right now than in any other country, or at any other period in the history of klal yisrael?
Regarding what rav elchonon h”yd said: Perhaps this will happen, but Israel has not yet lost a war (except maybe yom kippur)- that is an amazing track record considering hundreds of millions of Arabs want Israel wiped off the map.
Also, the establishment of Medinat Yisrael fulfilled several very important nevuahs about keitz hayamim and the future geulah. Yeshayahu 41:18-21 says the desert land will one day bloom again. Yechezkel 37:11-13 predicts that all the Jews will return to eretz yisrael in a massive kibbutz galuyos. Both of those things have started to happen and are continuing to happen every second of modern Israel’s existence.
So go call our neviim apikorsim r”l straight out, because that is what you are implying.
musser z, calm down a little.
Ponevez Yeshiva does indeed fly the flag every Yom Ha’atzmaut. Whether they fly it “proudly” as you state, or just stamm fly the flag for reasons other than being proud of Medinat Yisrael (the political entity, as opposed to the geographic and/or spiritual location) is open to debate.
Flying the flag, however, is not the same as celebrating Yom Ha’atzmaut as a Yom Tov- by reciting Hallel with Shem u’Malchut, refraining from reciting Tachanun, etc. This is no doubt what the Chazon Ish ZT”L and others objected to.
Not sure where a flaming Mangal fits in. Tzarich iyun.
Chacham Ovadia Yosef merely writes in Yabia Omer about Yom Ha’atzmut that Hallel should not be said with a blessing but “If the congregation wishes to say Hallel without a blessing after the prayer service, they should not be prevented.” That is hardly an endorsement.
musser zoger, no, it does not apply to Ponevezh. First, they fly the flag for political reasons. ViHaKesef YaAneh es HaKol. Second, merely flying the flag is not necessarily celebrating the day. They are not, CH”V, Zionists.
Regarding the pathetic accusation of trolling, I was not the one who “brought Zionism in”; I replied to a post that did so.
As I’ve mentioned in other threads, the Brisker Rov’s statement is factual history, in addition to daas Torah. Read the writings of Zionists. Their goal was (and still is) to create a new Jew, a Hebrew to replace Jews, replacing Judaism and the Torah with, lihavdil, Zionism, CH”V. This was and is very much not some innocent nationalist movement.
As the Brisker Rov wrote, the Zionists shmad not in order to have a State, but, rather, the Zionists need a State in order to shmad.
HaKatan,
I would like to go on the record as publicly protesting and expressing my distress at your quoting the phrase, “ViHakesef …” with regard to a decision by the Roshei Yeshiva of Ponevez.
How dare you presume to understand their decisions and thought processes.
No matter how you want to spin it Most do not hold by the Eidah
rationalfrummie:
You aren’t being very rational, and you are presenting emotional sevaras that have no intellectual basis. Your implication is that the proliferation of Torah in E”Y means that Zionism is ergo correct. So, by that logic, why was Hitler so successful if he was wrong, and he obviously was? The simple answer is that one (proliferation of Torah) has nothing to do with, lihavdil, the other (Zionism).
As Rav Elchonon said, it is certain. Your questions, again, are not questions.
That Hashem has spared His children, that Hashem has spared many Jews in Israel’s wars is also, obviously, not a raayah to Zionism. Of course, B”H, Hashem has rachmanus on His children.
Regarding the desert blooming, this also does not speak about Zionism, only about Jews in Eretz Yisrael; Jews do, of course, live in Eretz Yisrael.
It’s best to learn (outside of Zionist sources) first before ridiculously accusing people of calling neviim, CH”V, apikorsim.
truthsharer, why are statements prior to 1948 irrelevant?
Besides, the Chazon Ish and Brisker Rov, among others, had plenty to say after 1948. Like instructing the baal tefillah to say tachanun on Israel’s Yom HaAtzmaut even though there was a bris to take place that morning.
The only difference among Torah authorities from before 1948 to afterwards is the tactical approach to dealing with Zionism. Some held it was assur to have any part of it while others held that it was permitted to work to save what could be saved even from within Zionist organs like its “Knesset”. But the treif of Zionism.
Is anyone so misinformed/uninformed that they (very mistakenly) believe that the gedolim’s opposition to Zionism stopped in 1948?
Sam2, in addition to the above answer by a different poster, from Rav Ovadiah’s other writings that I’ve seen, he is not a Zionist. He believes in, and says he encourages people to join those who are, living in E”Y and even calls this Zionism.
But he is not, CH”V, a Zionist, including hisgarus baUmos, dechikas haKeitz, shmad and the other central tenets of Zionist theology.
Zionism is treif and heretical, according to the great sages of yesteryear (and today) regardless of MO and “Religious Zionist” wishes to the contrary.
DaMoshe, you insist on having the Zionist wool pulled over your eyes. It is the Zionists who make things up and distort our holy Torah to further their idolatrous cause.
HaKatan: So I guess the Zionists lost, because Torah today is thriving in modern Israel like it never has ever before! But wait, they didn’t lose- Israel is the State established by the Zionists, the very people you claim hate Torah and yiddishkeit! What a setirah.
Also, some thoughts to ponder: Why do 33% of the members of the knesset wear kippahs? Why are chareidim so well represented in Israeli politics? Why do 58% of all Israelis believe in that Hashem gave us the Torah on har sinai? Why are yeshivas, seminaries, basei midrash, shuls, and frum neighborhoods growing? Why can one find kosher food practically everywhere in Israel? If Zionists really hated Torah and yiddishkeit, none of this would be happening.
I’m still trying to figure out why my post was not approved.
HaKatan: I’m still waiting for your formal statement decrying R’ Ovadia as an Apikores according to you and the Chazon Ish.
rational- i dont wanna get involved, but i would propose that the zionism of the 1800s and early 1900s is indeed dead, and the people living and learning in israel (at least the frumme) dont have a zionist agenda. honestly, lapid is the closest thing to a zionist, and I wouldnt want to be on his team.
I didn’t read past the OP so others may have stated this. YWN is not anti-Satmar. Here in the CR there are many Satmar-influenced posters. They may even make up a majority of posts on Israel related topics. Your impression is based on YWN’s coverage of the rally in Lower Manhattan. That was an aberration not typical of YWN.
You’ve all heard of Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies. I think on YWN there is a CR Rule of NK Analogies. The longer any discussion about any topic progresses the greater likelihood NK name will be invoked. Which actually just makes it one more thing NK and the Nazis have in common.
HaKatan: His other writings? I’m not calling anyone a Zionist or not a Zionist. I am telling you to read the T’shuvah and, based on your stance above (which you say in the name of the Chazon Ish) call R’ Ovadiah an Apikores. Either that or actually discuss the T’shuvah and explain why it doesn’t violate what you set above.
Sam, do you just happen to have full sets of yabia omer or yechaveh daat lying around?
rationalfrummie: Actually, I don’t have a Yechave Daat and my bookshelf feels incredibly lacking for it. But of course I have a Yabiya Omer. It sits proudly next to my Igros Moshe and Tzitz Eliezer for the T’shuvos that I consult from the previous generation. One cannot consider themselves knowledgeable on any contemporary topic without seeing those three. (I’m still looking for a good price on a Minchas Shlomo).
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