June 21, 2018 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #1544639
After not taking busses for many years, I noticed this select bus service. This is a strange method which some busses require you prepay before getting on the select bus. There are metro card like vending machines where you insert metrocard or coins an get a receipt. People just get on the bus by any door even the rear doors and do not need to pay upon boarding. Has the MTA gone mad? Not that I am concerned for their general greed but who came up with this plan which they are probably losing millions on? It is so easy to just get on the bus for a free ride since you are “supposed” to prepay. Im sure noone checks you and many people ride for free. The idea is to lessen lines on boarding but the compromise is losing a lot of money to non paying riders and also creating lines by the machine which delays the bus or can lead you to miss the bus if you are running to catch it. How does this makes sense? Last time I checked the MTA is a business not your friend who there might be mutual trust. And even between friends, there are no friends when it comes to business….June 21, 2018 9:12 pm at 9:12 pm #1544907
Ok so noones familiar with this bus. Case close ; )June 21, 2018 11:33 pm at 11:33 pm #1544934MammeleParticipant
I believe they do random checks.June 21, 2018 11:36 pm at 11:36 pm #1544945
There are MTA workers at certain stops who board the bus and asks to inspect the receipts. Other inspectors collect the receipts from those exiting the bus. No receipt, $100 fine.June 21, 2018 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #1544953
You can give a countless number of excuses. Also I don’t think they can just stop dozens of people getting off a bus. Why would anyone stop and have their time wasted once they are off a bus? Besides unless they have inspectors on board to check every individual who boards the bus, many people can get away without paying.
Even if inspectors were on throughout the route things still get messy. The busses are very long and people board from all doors. There is no way to keep track of everyone especially with constant boarding and unboarding. And with random checks they are for sure missing people getting on for only a few stops. The whole system is flawed and a real money gap. Strange how they came up with this plan.June 22, 2018 8:02 am at 8:02 am #1544976Neville ChaimBerlinParticipant
They calculated the probability of people not paying, and set the fine at a price that would offset it.
It’s still a terrible idea. It ends up causing a frenzy of people pushing their way to the machine and mashing buttons to get the ticket as they see the bus coming. And, if they’re too slow, they bought the ticket for nothing.June 22, 2018 8:02 am at 8:02 am #1544966Shopping613 🌠Participant
They do this in Israel. They have full time people getting on busses and checking Rav Kavs on the lightrail and busses. If you didn’t pay you get a pretty hefty fine. I guess it covers anyone else who ALSO didn’t pay with the fine.
They probably took the idea from Israel…June 22, 2018 8:02 am at 8:02 am #1544970WinnieThePoohParticipant
The system works similarly in Israel. For example, on the light rail in Yerushalayim, you prepay to get a ticket (and risk missing the train) or use a pre-loaded/pre-paid smart card (RavKav) , which is then inserted into one of multiple machines located in each car of the train, which then spits out a receipt. No one prevents people who don’t pay from getting on. But they have inspectors spot checking the passengers for their tickets, and will give big fines to those who don’t pay. It’s a strong deterrent, although I am sure there are those who get away without paying, the money brought in by fines more than makes up for it. Same principle behind paid parking as well. Most pay because they are either law abiding and/or do not want to risk getting an expensive ticket, some will get away without paying, and some will get fined and be a source of revenue to the city.June 22, 2018 8:04 am at 8:04 am #1544968Thinking out loudParticipant
litvishechosid: Welcome to the New York City Public Transit system, used by an average of 5.7 MILLION riders daily! Here is a broader view, that may clarify things for you:
SBS buses are express buses. They make only “select” stops on an otherwise very long route, and are used primarily by commuters; people who are using the bus daily, twice a day. This system has significantly improved the travel time of commuters on heavily traveled long routes that are not serviced by the subway system.
New York has a comprehensive public transit system, but it is quite costly for the typical lower/middle class commuter. The MTA has systems in place to somewhat reduce that very high cost of using public transit. A very high percentage of commuters buy a weekly or monthly unlimited metrocard, for a significant savings, so individual rides, including those on the SBS routes are already prepaid, just by owning either type of unlimited metrocard.
Additionally, most commuters in NYC, especially those who use buses, have a 2-leg commute. Meaning, they use either a bus and a (subway) train, or 2 buses. Even those who are not using a monthly unlimited metrocard, are very likely making use of a free transfer, which is included with almost all trips using a regular pay-per-ride metrocard. The free transfer only works if your metrocard was used (and paid) within the previous 2 hours on a different route.
I suspect that the actuaries who work for the MTA have concluded that the SBS routes are covered at a very high percentage by the fare that was/will be paid on the previous, or connecting route, or by the use of prepaid unlimited monthly metrocards. The amount of people who literally get a “free ride” if they are on an SBS bus, and did not pay is probably negligible. Regular users of the NYC subway system are also familiar with turnstile jumpers, and riders who wait at emergency exit gates, to enter the system without paying. There is a limited amount of oversight available to prevent or prosecute the scofflaws.
I presume a cost/benefit analysis is done routinely, to determine how much money (employed policemen/enforcement officers) to invest, for curbing petty theft by non-paying riders. I hope you sleep better now!June 22, 2018 9:13 am at 9:13 am #1544994mentsch1Participant
Cynically i assume union bosses are behind this crazy system
living in brooklyn , i often see groups of 5+ mta enforcement officers standing at main bus route intersections. They pend a lot of time talking and there is no way that the fines offset their union saariesJune 22, 2018 10:45 am at 10:45 am #1545047
I’m sure my last comment sums up most of what the later commentors replied but did not answer the points. Also can they give you a fine if you didn’t have time to wait for the receipt because you ran on to the bus a second before it closed the doors? Or if you misplaced the ticket? Or you paid and didn’t know to take a ticket? What if you don’t give them your info, are they able to arrest you on the bus? There are many who don’t need to transfer busses. Just seems like a flawed system of they are relying on random checks. Of they had someone onboard at all times it would still be impossible to check everyone who’s getting on and off from all doors, but would be a better chance. I guess they are just relying on fear of paying. Many New Yorkers don’t have much a fear so they picked the wrong crowd. Anyone comparing this to parking tickets makes no sense because there are enough traffic Copa going around constantly to cover ground. Often they are even watching you. Besides parking is like a quarter-15 minutes or $1 an hour. Each MTA swipe is $2.75. It adds up.June 22, 2018 11:22 am at 11:22 am #1545060
lit: As someone who takes the bus daily, most people pay before going on the bus. Are their cheaters? Yes, but most people do pay the proper fare.
To answer your points:
You can give a countless number of excuses. Also I don’t think they can just stop dozens of people getting off a bus.
**** I have seen this at the Junction in Flatbush (15 – 20 people exiting the bus) and yes they stop everyone and ask for their ticket. Most of these inspectors are MTA police and can issue you a summons for trying to avoid them.****
Why would anyone stop and have their time wasted once they are off a bus?
**** It takes between 5 – 10 seconds to be asked for your ticket and hand it to them. Hardly an inconvenience.*****
Besides unless they have inspectors on board to check every individual who boards the bus, many people can get away without paying.
****2 or 3 inspectors board the bus and ask to see the tickets. If you don’t have one they escort you off the bus.****
Also can they give you a fine if you didn’t have time to wait for the receipt because you ran on to the bus a second before it closed the doors?
Or if you misplaced the ticket?
****If you paid with a Metrocard, you can ask for a history of its use and prove you paid.****
Or you paid and didn’t know to take a ticket?
****The machine tells you to take your ticket.”***
What if you don’t give them your info, are they able to arrest you on the bus?
****I dont know about an arrest since it is a misdemeanor. OBSTRUCTING GOVERNMENTAL ADMINISTRATION SECOND DEGREE (A Misdemeanor) PENAL LAW 195.05****
Since this system was started in the Bronx in 2008, why are you first questioning it now. I live in Flatbush and my daughter works in Williamsburg. The SBS saves 20 – 30 minutes over the local buses.June 22, 2018 1:23 pm at 1:23 pm #1545066
Iac-“Since this system was started in the Bronx in 2008, why are you first questioning it now.”
– I thankfully don’t live in the Bronx. I think in my area it was only recently started. I’m questioning it now because I took a bus for the first time in like 4 years so I haven’t noticed these changes. I always assumed the card machines by the stops were MetroCard machines which would have been great. But they aren’t as I found out when trying to conveniently refill my card.
If you misplaced the ticket or didn’t take one but paid in coins, they can’t check your card and it’s unfair to be fined. These things d happen you know. People are busy and carry enough things with them that they don’t need to be worries about saving a ticket every time they use the bus. It also contributes to littering once the person doesn’t need the receipt. And lines at the machine especially if you are running to a bus which just pulled up to a stop and many people are trying to catch it. Busses would have to wait for them to board anyway which delays everything unless they just don’t care when they see someone paying and close the doors and drive off before the customer even has a chance to get on. I guess once you get used to it you work around it. Just a big change from the way it was for many years.June 22, 2018 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #1545103
Lit: I don’t live in the Bronx either but I knew about the SBS bus even before it came to Brooklyn. Almost every SBS stops have multiple machines, not just 1. Many people use smartphones and know exactly what the time the bus is arriving. I know that when I buy my ticket I hold it in my hand or put it in my pocket until I reach my stop.
“I guess once you get used to it you work around it. Just a big change from the way it was for many years.” So was not using tokens and using metrocards.June 22, 2018 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #1545124
I replied but it looks like it got lost, not in the mood to rewrite. you get the point though.June 22, 2018 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #1545120
iacisrmma- “Many people use smartphones and know exactly what the time the bus is arriving’
-keyword, “many”. And there are many who dont. And most stops dont have the electronic screenboard either.
” I know that when I buy my ticket I hold it in my hand or put it in my pocket until I reach my stop. ”
-Yes. Do you also know how many people are losing precious time off their transfer time period? Which is why there is a mass scramble at the machines when you actually see the bus at the stop in order to avoid losing time off the transfer. Unless they extended the time period which I dont know of.
“So was not using tokens and using metrocards.”
-Ya but it was the same concept just different method of pay. Now you have to hold on to receipts and get inspected as if you are in the 1800’s.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.