Schools and vaccinations — a modest proposal

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  • #1635489

    Milhouse
    Participant

    I have come to the conclusion that those rabbonim who denounce schools that won’t admit unvaccinated children are right. Every Jewish child is entitled to a kosher chinuch, and it’s wrong for a school to deny this to one child just because his or her parents are so crazy, lazy, or neglectful as not to have had him or her vaccinated.

    Therefore I propose that the schools change their policy and announce that from now on their doors are open to all Jewish children. If your child is unvaccinated please note that upon registration, and on the first day of school please bring him or her half an hour early. A nurse will be on hand, and the child will be vaccinated in time to make it to the first class of the day.

    If parents choose not to take advantage of this offer, and are so meshuge and/or cruel that they will keep their children out of school for such a reason, that can hardly be the schools’ fault. The same rabbonim who now condemn the schools would have no choice, if they are honest and yir’ei shomayim, but to turn their condemnation on the parents.

    #1635503

    Joseph
    Participant

    How will the schools know if a parent is being dishonest in claiming that their child is already vaccinated (and potentially presented false documentation)?

    #1635506

    Eli Y
    Participant

    @milhouse Rather than merely deny them a Jewish education, how about we excommunicate the parents and their children who don’t get vaccinated. That way they have to get vaccinated to be Jewish.

    #1635556

    apushatayid
    Participant

    They care claiming a religious exemption. Let the clergy of their religion start a school and educate them according to their religion. We are not responsible to educate children who claim a different religion.

    #1635608

    Mammele
    Participant

    Joseph: It’s at least the second time you mention parents falsifying their kids’ immunization records. Almost impossible to do in NY, not sure about NJ.

    In NYS, I the schools have direct access to vaccination records entered by all doctors/pediatricians to the Health Depts.’ web site. So unless one has a doctor willing to enter false information, the schools will find out the truth when they log in. Below I copy-pasted from the NY DoH website. You can easily find the full text.

    As part of this effort, the New York State legislature passed the Immunization Registry Law which, as of January 1, 2008, requires health care providers to report all immunizations administered to persons less than 19 years of age, along with the person’s immunization histories, to the New York State Department of Health using the New York State Immunization Information System (NYSIIS).

    #1636433

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Joseph, if you’re worried about forged documentation, the exact same problem exists now. My modest proposal would not affect that.

    Eli Y, we can’t stop them from being Jewish. Cherem doesn’t make someone not Jewish. And we have no right to put the children in cherem, or to deprive them of any benefit.

    Apusheteyid, the children are not claiming a different religion. They are bnei Avrohom Yitzchok Veyaacov, with Jewish neshomos for whose welfare we are each personally responsible. That is the rabbonim’s whole point when they tell the schools not to exclude them. So fine, let the schools not exclude them, but vaccinate them as soon as they show up. If this causes the parents not to send them, then surely the same rabbonim, if they’re truly honest, will have no choice but to turn their condemnation on the parents who are spurning the schools’ generous offer.

    #1636485

    adocs
    Participant

    Are these same rabbonim also condemning schools that refuse to allow kids to attend whose parents haven’t paid tuition? After all, every Jewish child deserves a Jewish education. Or are poor kids more dangerous than unvaccinated kids and therefore they should be refused admittance?

    #1636518

    FrumWhere
    Participant

    Millhous, you’re being very foolish. Which school is willing to risk the 1) illegality of giving the vaccinations and 2) the resulting justifiable lawsuits?

    #1637246

    Milhouse
    Participant

    If parents are starving their children, is it illegal to feed them? If they are keeping them naked is it illegal to clothe them? And even if it is illegal, so what, no jury will ever convict. Certainly the Torah would approve, so who cares about laws of Sedom.

    As for lawsuits there will be none, because parents who are so meshugeh will simply not take the schools up on the offer. They will unfortunately keep their children home from school, and will no longer be able to blame the school for denying the children a chinuch. And all the rabbonim who are so concerned for these children’s chinuch will have to address the new reality that it’s the parents who are standing in the way, not the school.

    #1637271

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    This is essentially what is happening, except instead of the schools vaccinating the kids, they encourage the parents to bring them to an accredited physician to vaccinate them.

    In other words, it’s already the parents’ fault.

    I assume this is Milhouse’s point…

    #1637264

    Some Common Sense
    Participant

    Maybe require a letter from their local and well known doctor directly to the school with the vaccination record because I have heard, but not verified, that some parents are taking the vaccination record on one child and erasing the name and placing other children to falsify the record. If the child does not have such a letter from this doctor, the nurse will give the child all the necessary vaccination. If a parent refuses, they can find a different school for anti-vaxxers that are willing to let their children get polio.

    #1637456

    Milhouse
    Participant

    My point is that the parents and their supporters in the rabbinate are positioning this as a case of schools denying children a chinuch. The argument is how can you deny a child a chinuch just because you disagree with the parent. So I propose that the school reframe the whole conversation by saying all children are welcome — but if you send them to us we will vaccinate them. Of course the anti-vaxx parents would refuse, but now they, not the schools, would be the ones denying their children a chinuch, so if these rabbonim have any integrity they would have no choice but to turn their position around and support the schools and condemn the parents.

    #1637460

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    So I propose that the school reframe the whole conversation by saying all children are welcome — but if you send them to us we will vaccinate them.

    The rabbonim claiming the schools are denying the children chinuch are anti vax. This won’t help.

    Imagine saying “we’ll accept your child, but first we’ll give him 40 lashes”.

    That’s how the anti-vaxxers view it.

    So as rhetoric, ok, nice thread. If you mean it seriously, no dice.

    #1637483

    Milhouse
    Participant

    The rabbonim claiming the schools are denying the children chinuch are anti vax. This won’t help.

    That’s why I wrote “if they have any integrity”. They don’t admit to being part of this mishugaas. They say they’re only concerned about the children’s chinuch. My modest proposal would force them to either reverse their posture or else expose themselves as having no integrity, whereupon we can ignore them, not only on this issue but on every issue.

    By definition there aren’t any anti-vaxx gedolim, because anyone who is truly anti-vaxx is not a godol.

    #1637598

    truthishidden
    Participant

    So now you only trust rabbanim that hold like you!
    And then you wonder why rabbanim are not coming out publicly, bec. they would be stoned, instead of applauded for their integrity!

    #1638268

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Yes, “truth”, if a purported rov tells me that he believes the earth is flat, or that it’s right to throw stones at yidden who are driving on Shabbos, or that parents shouldn’t vaccinate their children, then I will not accept his claim to be a rov, or a godol, or anyone whose opinion matters.

    #1642429

    funnybone
    Participant

    Hey, OP, I have a better idea! School is open to everyone, as long as they have a medical form filled out that they were vaccinated!

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