Science Discovers Tznius

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    Well then, it’s up to YWN to take the next step and clarify this. I don’t feel comfortable posting opinions that may be viewed as the rantings of someone afflicted with multiple personality disorder.

    Maybe it’s my turn now to receive a Brachah?


    i am not a computer person but its seems to me very pushut why yeshivanet works that way. yeshhivanet works as a lan (local area network) because it is a firewall. ich mein azoi


    I must confess, I really try hard to be dan lkaf zchus in even near impossible circumstances. But I would NEVER in a thousand years would’ve guessed GMAB would be using YeshivaNet! So this strengthens my absolute belief in dan lfak zchus.

    But it does beget the question alluded to by Sarah. GMAB, who would’ve thought you such a tzaddik? Can you explain your decision to go with YeshivaNet? (Btw, if I recall GMAB came from Miami but currently live in Flatbush.)


    Sarah: just b/c s/o has yeshivanet doesent mean that he wont play “devils advocate” and furthermore, say he is left leaning, however he may have a wife who isnt and is smart enough not to let the treifnet into the house.

    to answer your miami question, yeshivanet comes in 2 forms 1. dial up from anywhere in usa as long as you have local # or have unlimited long distance 2. dsl (wherever verizon is available)



    Once Reb Levi Yitzchok was surprised to find a Jewish neighbor smoking a cigarette on Shabbos. He came over to his neighbor and said “You probably began smoking because you didn’t realize it was Shabbos.” “Oh, I know that today is Shabbos,” replied the man. “Then you probably don’t know that one is not allowed to smoke on Shabbos,” Rav Levi Yitzchak continued. “I know that too,” said the man. “Then I suppose you are smoking since it is necessary for your health,” the Rav stated. “No, not at all,” the man responded. At this point, Rav Levi Yitzchak lifted up his eyes to heaven and speaking directing to Hashem said, “See how honest your people are. Even when they commit a sin, they don’t compound it by lying about it!”


    The person who judges his neighbor in the scale of merit is himself judged favorably [by Hashem]. (Shabbos 127b)


    YeshivaNet is likely putting all their customers behind a common firewall (on the ISP side), with one IP address that everyone uses. Possibly related to how they setup their filters.


    If what Joseph says is correct, this would mean that only 6 people that post here have YeshivaNet. So I open the question to all posters that are not:



    3)World Saver




    6)Give Me a Break.

    do you have YeshivaNet?


    mdlevine, Possibly, but not necessarily. YeshivaNet may be sharing one IP amongst all its customers, or alternatively sharing multiple IP’s amongst its customers — yet still sharing a single IP for more than one customer, (while having more than one in use.)

    In any event, only the site admin can authoratively clarify it.


    First of all sarah and Gmab… grow up.

    why would you be hurt for being confused as each other. So it was a mistake and finished. Sometimes things in life are not worth taking so too heart.

    Also I am not that internet saavy but first of all anyone sharing internetthrough a router… wouldnt they have the same isp number?? for all you know the two could be neighbors 😉 wouldnt that be cute…. no clue if that makes sense… just a thought.

    I hope Gmab that you decide to be moichel… its not worth holding a grudge b/c of a mistaken identity crisis. Fine, innocent or not that is your cheshbon. but please verbalize your mechila to YW editor so you dont forget abt it and have it onj your head.


    smartcookie: I’d rather leave a bit to the imagination. 😉

    On a different note… Is somebody having a multiple identity crisis?


    ok, before everyone decides what happens, and why people are coming up with the same ip address let me explain how yeshivanet works (or doesnt 😉 ).

    a typical isp is unfiltered. this means you technically have a direct line to the internet. your isp gives you a ip address, no different then the post office giving the house/apt you live in a home address.

    now yeshivanet, koshernet, or any other filter isp is very different. they have huge super-servers, or rent, and those computers are filtering the internet. you are connecting to an internal network on the internal side, no different then, say, a person at work with multiple sub corporations. take aig before the meltdown. chances are they had one source of internet service (could be multiple t3’s, but still one gateway to the internet filtered through their firewall). this internet trickled down to their mortgage company, insurance company, investment company, etc.

    so, a person receiving internet through yeshiva/kosher net is really attaching to their network, as a vpn of sorts. when the moderator would see this, he will see many people using the same ip address. the only thing i ask is why only you two. there has to be tons more on a site like this?

    as a side point, if any of you are not happy with the service or alot of stupidity blocked using kosher/yeshiva net, you can try the evangelical service providers. its a shame, but they are more pleasant to talk to on the phone, more curtious, and their services is phenomenal. they don’t block stuff that should not be blocked, like hospital websites.



    I think it was Robert Frost who said drink deeply, or drink not at all. This means, you sound silly when you type without some of the pertinent facts.

    I have been using Yeshivanet for a number of years.

    1. Yeshivanet has NEVER blocked something that should not have been blocked. The blocking service is personally handled, and not done via keywords. Each site is separately requested, and then opened to one’s permanent account.

    2. The crew at Yeshivanet is extraordinarily courteous, professional, and pleasant.

    3. The fact that you think Yeshivanet would block a hospital or similar site, or that you appear to think that Yeshivanet works as a filtering service similar to Koshernet and the like, evidences your astounding ignorance.

    4. Your ignorance is not your fault- no one knows everything. It is helpful, though, to be cognizant of this truism, to curb impulsivity and other unpleasant things.



    talk about ignorance! You obiously dont use yehivanet!



    The problem is NOT mistaken identity – I couldn’t care less. It’s the fact that YW Moderator is threatening to kick me off Yeshiva World (see comment 29 on this thread).


    I use YeshivaNet because, although I’m not a kid, there ARE kids in the house and I don’t know what they could get into.



    I had dial-up, but I have since switched to DSL.



    I had dial-up, but I have since switched to DSL. But you’re right – if not for my family, I probably WOULDN’T have YeshivaNet.


    a reply to an email that I sent to YeshivaNet asking:

    —- Original Message

    Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 11:51 PM

    Subject: ISP

    > there is a whole discussion on Yeshiva World News re: ISP.


    > there are around 6 people posting using the same ISP, they are claiming

    > system route people all through the sme ISP?







    the response:Subject: Re: IPs

    Date: 11/2/2008 1:27:57 AM

    From: YeshivaNet Support

    To: mdlevine…

    CC: [email protected]

    Thanks for pointing this thread out to us.

    We don’t have an account on YWN, so please feel free to post this

    message to the list.

    Yes, many users share the same IPs.

    We have local access numbers across the US, and we recently began

    providing DSL nationwide as well, not only in Verizon service areas.

    Hope this clears things up.

    Yosi Greenfield

    YeshivaNet Support



    Do you normally insert yourself into others’ conversations in order to convey the exceedingly important message of “grow up”?

    Your neighbors and colleagues must really respect that. Courtesy at its finest.

    Just curious.


    If I may be so bold to suggest, I think an apology is in order by those who jumped on the affected parties in this unfortunate incident. Looking through the thread I noticed more than one comment dismissing any possibility of innocence.


    one last post on this tread for me:

    I want to apologize for my previous post where I accused others of either delibrately trying to post on different names or of having multiple personality disorder.

    I jumped without knowing all the details and I am sorrow and ask your forgiveness.


    I forgive you.



    Same here. And thank you for contacting Mr. Greenfield and posting his reply.



    I accepted the accusation against you as well. Please forgive me.



    Wholeheartedly. I understood your frustration, as I was equally disturbed as well.


    I hope you’ll forgive me for thinking that you were somehow messing me up.


    This is so cute. I love this! Everyone fights then everyone makes up. I’m literally crying on my keyboard (Mariner, please don’t post how to fix it!).

    Well done Sarah for taking it so well and you should be Matzliach and have loads of Nachas Ad Meoh Ve’esrim.

    GMAB- I was with you all the way, didn’t think you were so bored to use a few different user names and have an argument with yourself!

    You should all be Gebensht and keep the postings happy and friendly!


    Mi K’amchu Yisroel!?

    Nowhere else can you find a nation quick in regret and easy in forgiveness!


    Give Me a Break: no prob, I just hope that the editor will understand what is going on. just wondering? if multiple personality is a mental disorder(im assuming thats the case i pesonally dont know anything about this subject), then why is the editor so uptight? a person who has this disorder has multiple personalitys, he is not doing anything malicious! he is just argueing with a different personality, (just as we all are doing, except that in his cace it is the same person) which should be legit 🙂


    Slightly off topic, but still relevant – Legal Pads are yellow because yellow is supposed to stimulate the intelligence. Perhaps if the “background color” of YWN was yellow (and not white) the responses may be better.


    miami, Perhaps your comment should be made in “A Humorous Item”? 🙂


    It’s a good point to ask how many other users here have YeshivaNet. I don’t- but it seems unlikely that only six people are affected by this.

    GMAB, I too must ask your forgiveness for initially believing that you had acted deceptively. I’m glad to see that everyone here has learned the lesson of dan l’kaf zechut even when it does seem impossible.

    @BYgirl- Maybe I didn’t make myself clear. I stated that red is an eye-catching color. “Enticing” was your word. I do not for one second believe that a woman who wears a red garment is “enticing” or “seducing” or in any way causing men to have improper thoughts about her, unless, as stated before, the garment also happens to be clingy, scant, or see-through. This also is assuming that the woman does not wear head-to-toe red, but that she happens to have on a red shirt with, say, a denim skirt.

    Yes, I find the story about my mother to be cute, but more than that, I think it’s amusing. It seems obvious to me (and I see that we are of two minds on this subject) that the timing of my parents meeting and my mother buying red clothing was contiguous but not connected. In other words, my father was not attracted to my mother simply because she wore red. (I also believe that when my mother says that she bought “a whole wardrobe” of red, she is exaggerating. I have looked at pictures of her from that time, and she really did not wear so much red. In any case, I’m sure she doesn’t remember what she was wearing the first time they met.) They had 22 years of marriage based on a foundation of love, respect and caring. Sure, there was a physical attraction; marriages need that (see the shidduchim and weight thread.) But my parents met because they lived in the same apartment building and had mutual friends. The history of my parents’ friendship, dating relationship and marriage has nothing whatsoever to do with what either of them wore. So am I “proud” of the way my mother acted? That’s a strange question to ask; I don’t think that there was anything wrong with what she did, but it also didn’t accomplish anything. My father chose to ask her out on a date because he enjoyed spending time with her and could tell that she had good middot. He didn’t ask her out because he liked her clothing. So I wouldn’t use the word “proud”, but she did no harm by acting facetiously, so why should I hide it?


    for all jum,ping on me, i lumped yeshiva and kosher net together as they are similar in their makeup as far as networks go, and the assigned ip addresses to the service provided computers. the remark i made about customer service or lack there of was really about koshernet, and i should have been more clear. though i have met many people unhappy with both, just as people are unhappy with regular isp’s. i was letting people know that jews are not the only ones who have these companies, and since close to 30 percent of this country is evangelical, their companies have a much bigger market share of the “sanitized” internet. meaning more money to infuse into the process of filtering.

    trust me sarah, i know plenty of how both “net’s” work, both on their side, with needing them to open ports for my clients, and from users ends, as many of my clients have these companies as their isp’s (or just email service).


    Sorry, Mariner, but your “expertise” apparently has its limits, as evidenced by your posting. The “hospital” reference was most amusing.

    More importantly, my gentle advice is to ask your LOR if it is permitted to advise others who use a Shomer Shabbos company to check out “others”. Although I am very careful to use Jewish shops/companies whenever possible, it is extraordinarily rare to find an Observant Jew who deliberately “informs” others that evangelical companies might be a better place, without having been asked. Aside from the fact that I don’t believe it is possible to be more pleasant, courteous, and professional than Yeshivanet.

    B”H, this abhorrent behavior is a rarity in Observant Jewry.

    And to preempt your knee-jerk response, no, I am not “related” to the crew at Yeshivanet, nor know them on a personal or social level. This has provided another dimension, though, of the dangers internet pose to some impulsive, not-yet-wise individuals.





    By the way, this is my first time reading this thread. I will confess that I used to be shema and then one day switched to veyatziv.I never went back to shema though and yes, I do have yeshivanet. That would explain why my name shema is on the list of people using the same ip as gmab, sarah, and whoever else is on that list.


    My YW problems aside, I think that YeshivaNet is an excellent alternative to the rag they call ‘Internet.’


    GMAB, please elucidate your point to help others understand the dangers.



    Are you saying that I’ve “been there, done that?”

    Thankfully, I don’t really have the answer to your request.


    No, just marveling at your wisdom and hoping you’d share it with all, so people don’t fall prey to this horrific danger.


    Btw, gmab I am quite impressed (if I haven’t so yet expressed) with your usage of YeshivaNet. How many sites did you have them open access to for your family? And who in your family’s initiative was it to use YeshivaNet, instead of treifnet?


    Sarah, i wrote you a nice apology post but it disappeared.

    The answer to your question… food for thought… thanks I will try to keep it to myself next time.

    We all have areas to work on… thanks for pointing it out 😉

    I hope e/o is all happy now. shalom al yisrael venoimar amein! 🙂

    Mechila Sarah and GMAB?


    this has been the most exciting and humorous thread I have ever seen on yeshiva world,maybe on the internet altogether. it should probably be renamed from tznius to humor or to dan lkaf zechus. it will go down as a classic.

    as far as the original point of the thread, most commentors (that commented on the red issue) obviously didn’t read the original article.

    also the gemarah says clearly that it is ossur to wear red. if you want to say that it doesn’t apply anymore, I could think of a lot more geshmake things that we could matir with that sevarah.



    About 200, but a huge number are animal-oriented. (Did I mention I love animals?)

    Whose initiative? I don’t even remember already.



    “Mechila Sarah and GMAB?”

    Of course.


    I agree. Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.


    Instead of everyone asking Mechila continuously, let everyone just be Mochel everyone and if someone absolutely refuses they can state their reason below…


    JEWESS- why is this different than wearing red and men shouldnt look at me. I mean, of course i dont mean the literal difference, but your whole attitude couldnt be more wrong.

    You have to do your utmost not to be noticeable, and no, that doesnt mean wearing a big black Shmata over your whole body. You have to dress moderately and inconspicuously so no one will look your way and it’s the men’s job to keep their eyes to themselveS!!!

    I wouldnt want my own husband to see many of the woman on the streets. And im talking about Heimishe woman who are dressed with the attitude that youre carrying around. I dress the way I want, and the men should walk the streets with closed eyes.

    BTW- we Bichlal dont belong on the streets, we belong at home, but since that’s nearly impossible, we need to make sure that we dotn attract anyone to our looks.


    🙂 This thread should definitely win some sort of prize…



    I am mochel all, but I wouldn’t say no to a post by the site moderator.


    I don’t wear “whatever I want”; I put a lot of effort into making sure that I dress modestly, but of course modesty is subject to interpretation. I do wear red and other bright colors, and I do wear pants, since I don’t see anything wrong with either. I’m not asking men to walk the streets with their eyes closed, but at the same time, I cannot be expected to conform to somebody else’s conception of modesty simply because he might see me on the street. Those who are extremely concerned about this would do well to live in neighborhoods like Boro Park where women like me don’t live.

    For me, modesty does not mean that I should try not to be noticeable. As I have stated before, I don’t think that there is anything wrong with men noticing women, nor do I believe that it is my duty to dress “moderately and inconspicuously”. Why is it a problem if a man should “look my way?” My clothes are loose-fitting and they cover the areas that need to be covered, so I don’t see how there any danger in him noticing me.

    “We Bichlal don’t belong on the streets, we belong at home.” Sources for this idea would be helpful.


    jf02, See the first post of the following page for your requested sources regarding smartcookie’s comment:


    Those sources do not demonstrate a clear prohibition, as is demonstrated by the posts further down the page.

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