July 20, 2020 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #1884071
In the discussion about lack of clout of the frum community the discussion veered off to kiruv. I was thinking about that state of BTs, I live in a yeshivish /heimish/ chasidish area of Monsey with 6 BT families, The BT are middle aged and mainstreamed in all aspects, the kids went to regular yeshivas,
Out of the 6 four have at least one child who went OTD, I was talking with sister the other day and she noticed a similar trend of like 2/3 of BTs have at least 1 child OTD, a much higher number then by FFB.
Did anyone else notice this?July 20, 2020 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #1884317☕️coffee addictParticipant
Maybe because your sample size for ffbs are over skewed
If you look OOT you might find a different storyJuly 21, 2020 12:54 am at 12:54 am #1884544rationalParticipant
I did not notice the aversion to using periods at the end of sentences.July 21, 2020 8:59 am at 8:59 am #1884675
@ Coffee, OOT has more OTD kids of FFBs or less OTD kids of BTs?July 21, 2020 9:44 am at 9:44 am #1884701☕️coffee addictParticipant
I think less,
There are less distractions OotJuly 21, 2020 9:53 am at 9:53 am #1884725🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
“I think less,
There are less distractions Oot”
Less rejection, less insistance on being a round
pegJuly 21, 2020 11:39 am at 11:39 am #1884813MaidofCHParticipant
My Brooklyn community has an organization for kid who are at-risk or OTD, and there is the guilty secret: the majority come from BT homes.
BTs are handicapped by lack of family support or tradition. Also, many carry baggage or fail to “fit in” due to demeanor or behavior. According to my observation, the ones who do best came from traditional or socially conservative families, or have frum relatives, or have money (which will raise anyone’s status).July 21, 2020 1:11 pm at 1:11 pm #1884899LAmotherParticipant
Totally disagree maidodCH
As a bt 27 yrs and kiruv work I see that if a couple mainstream themselves (doesnt wanna only live near other bts) their families are beautiful. An added edge is the passion for hashem rather than things being rote. and openness to have a real discussion when their teens have questions. Been there, done that, your questions wont scare me. Anyway this is my opinion. Like with anything else there are going to be the sad cases of otd. One extra point. It’s really helpful if we dont live super near our extended and super secular family. Eg made aliyah. If we do live near family we have to be super smart and subtle how we handle intermingling so the kids don’t feel “it’s not fair”, or asking parents super nicely no tv at grandmaJuly 21, 2020 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #1885312
@LAMother, are you saying that you disagree with Maid of CH and BTs have the same or less amounts of OTD cases?July 22, 2020 12:23 am at 12:23 am #1885342MaidofCHParticipant
Are you aware that you brought out some of my points.
“If a couple mainstreams themselves” (doesn’t wanna only live near other BTs). Sure. I personally think that is best. But not all frum communities are welcoming. Some require rigid conformity, which may be difficult to BTs accustomed to certain freedoms.
“Helpful if we don’t live super near our extended and super-secular family.” That was another point I made, albeit indirectly. Many BTs lack the presence of spirituality and normality within frum families. Of course, there are many dysfunctional frum families (BTs may have the advantage of less enmeshment). Nevertheless, BTs are more vulnerable to the outside world because of secular family.
Think — much of Jewish life is centered around family events — weddings, bar mitzvahs, brissim, etc. Frum Jews are constantly attending relatives’ simchas. Where does that leave the BT? Or his/her children? They already sense the difference between themselves & FFBs.
I do not generalize about BTs. There are many fine ones who have produced, B”H, wonderfully frum children. But I still think they are at greater risk for OTD, given the dynamics described above.July 22, 2020 10:32 am at 10:32 am #1885413jdf007Participant
If there is one thing the pandemic and the nationwide riots (which are still happening, day 50 something Portland I hear) have taught us, it is that you cannot shut out the world. Some of the theories on the origin of the virus, if true, is straight out of Torah. But, the original origin theory is iffy at this time.July 23, 2020 9:24 am at 9:24 am #1885827
@kdf007, shiychus to this discussion?August 12, 2020 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #1891600☢️ 🚭 ☣️ Rand0m3x 🧠🕴️🎲Participant
Some of the theories on the origin of the virus, if true, is straight out of Torah.
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