Seder Much Too Long

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  • #608761

    playtime
    Member

    So, we end our Seder at about 2:00 in the morning.

    Because we have a long Shulchan Oreich?

    No. About fifteen minutes. (last year I even skipped the meal cause I was so tired)

    My father goes on and on and on and on and on with

    Pilpulim, and Drashas w/ notes galore on and on and on.

    By Motzi Matza I’m starving, so I fill myself with Matza, and by Koreich I’m stuffed full.

    For the 4 Cosos, our cups are over 6 oz, about double the Shiur, so by the end of the night I’m left with weird noises coming from my stomach of wine, marror, charoses, matza.

    Then the who meal is rush rush rush.

    HEEEELP!

    #940900

    SaysMe
    Member

    snack late afternoon. hold back on the extra matza so your stomach doesn’t rebel later. Drink between kadesh and motzi matza- that should push off the worst hunger. USE A SMALLER KOS!! seriously.

    #940901

    RABBAIM
    Participant

    Talmud, how old are you? A mature adult who has any spirituality would not be wheere you are. YOu need tikun gadol!! Try a dsicovery program! Be mekarev yourself to Yiddishkeit

    #940902

    Mr Sfardi
    Participant

    Thats exactly why my father does the hagada fast. He still says divrei torah………. but to a certain extent. Usually we finish around 11:30-11:45. midnight is the max.

    #940903

    playtime
    Member

    RABBAIM- “Talmud, how old are you? A mature adult who has any spirituality would not be wheere you are. YOu need tikun gadol!! Try a dsicovery program! Be mekarev yourself to Yiddishkeit”

    You have a very naive and warped Yiddishe outlook.

    1) People talk Chiddushim hours on end, and are NOT even Yotzei Sippur Yetzias Mitzraim.

    2) The Mishnah Berurah says not to drink so much that you are full by the other Kosos.

    3) You’re supposed to enjoy Shulchan Oreich- (and it’s not called Shulchan ‘Oreich’ because it rhymes w/ Koreich,) and there is a special Mitzvah to have meat.

    “A mature adult who has any spirituality would not be where you are.”

    I’m in Beis Medrish, and enjoy Pilpulim, but there’s a time and place for everything. You don’t begin to know what you’re talking about.

    You have become so entangled in the minutia of Yeshivish culture that you are completely lost of true Frumkeit.

    I’ve had Rabbeim like you, who are very imposing of their Chumros. Instead of being Mekarev people, you push people back.

    It is you who need to join a discovery program.

    #940904

    rebdoniel
    Member

    The whole idea is to say over the pshat of the haggadah.

    #940905

    147
    Participant

    Thisd year we shall have the longest time slot since 1899 between Tzeis haKochovim and Chatzos, due the unusual earliness of the Secular date of Pesach.

    However, if your Seder is identical in length each year, this year shall be the earliest finishing line, since 1899.

    Despite the 1st Mishno in Arvei pesochim, we always have a very substantial high tea {sometimes hot dogs, fish, salads}, both on Erev Pesach [even when on Shabbos], and Rishon Shel Pesach to tide us thru Motzi Matzo, as clearly 1 raddish on its own shall not be able to accomplish that task.

    #940906

    Brony
    Participant

    tell your old man that he isn’t being paid by the word and needs to skip to the action before someone dies of boredom. better yet, halfway through one of his divrei torah, go “mah haavoda hazos lachem” and duck.

    #940907

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I bought a new hagadda from a box in shul, so I could interrupt with random interesting things I find.

    #940908

    Rabbeim, how can you say such offensive things about talmud when you dont even know who he is?

    My father makes the seder interesting. each kid has to present a pesach project that was given to us 3 weeks in advance. my father dresses up and uses lots of props. We play games like headbands with names like pharoah, bilom, moshe, basya and objects like frogs, sea etc. Then we go through the whole story with everyone pitching in and asking questions. It’s realy very enjoyable and it doesnt seem like we are going through maggid because its a mizvah but rather because it is an enjoyable task to do. We barely motice that we are hungry because we are enjoying ourselves. Maybe ask your father to make some changes to the seder to make it more fun and enjoyable? It can be really boring to sit for hours and just listen to your father talk.

    #940909

    RABBAIM
    Participant

    Talmud:

    “You have a very naive and warped Yiddishe outlook.

    1) People talk Chiddushim hours on end, and are NOT even Yotzei Sippur Yetzias Mitzraim.”

    “2) The Mishnah Berurah says not to drink so much that you are full by the other Kosos.”

    so dont!!! Take a smaller cup!! Who said you need a large one? Thats what I mean, are you an adult? Take control of your daled amos!! Need to spend 2 dollars to but a 3 oz glass, do so!!!

    3) You’re supposed to enjoy Shulchan Oreich- (and it’s not called Shulchan ‘Oreich’ because it rhymes w/ Koreich,) and there is a special Mitzvah to have meat.

    So enjoy it! Eat less mataza… self control never hurt anyone! A baby eats whatever he sees and then has no room. If you know what is coming, mavbe some self control by the Matza and leave room for the fleish!

    “A mature adult who has any spirituality would not be where you are.”

    I’m in Beis Medrish, and enjoy Pilpulim, but there’s a time and place for everything. You don’t begin to know what you’re talking about.

    BTW if you learned the halachos, speaking pilpul about hilchos Pesach is part of sipur Yeyzias Mitzaryim

    If you are in Bais Medrash and are a mature bochur, sit down with your father before Pesach begins and discuss the possibility of changes to the venue. Be an adult, not a whining baby on the internet!

    You have become so entangled in the minutia of Yeshivish culture that you are completely lost of true Frumkeit.

    Sorry, you got the wrong guy. You read between the lines incorrectly. You have become so entangled in self you forgot to think of what a father is and how we need to speak about him and to relate to him.

    I’ve had Rabbeim like you, who are very imposing of their Chumros. Instead of being Mekarev people, you push people back.

    Chumros??? You are the one who eats too much Matza! I measure it out before Pesach for each person so no one has to eat more than the basic shiur of Rav Moshe Feinstein.

    Our sedorim are filled with singing dancing, stories for the kids, pilpul for the older bachurim, midrashim and analysis for the women. and all listen in rapt attention as the older generation share stories of their personal hatazla after we eat the afikoman….. and we rarely finish befroe 2:30 or 3am

    Talmidim come second night after their own sedorim to join with my family and we can continue till 4 or 5 am………. we do discovery.. enthusiastic, enjoyable, uplifting, frelich yiddishkeit.

    Be active, not passive!

    Talk to your father respectfully with humility and Yiras Hakavod and you may find a very receptive person.

    It is you who need to join a discovery program.

    I am in it each day of each year………..Thank you!

    #940910

    SaysMe
    Member

    v’ahavta l’reyacha kamochaaaa, zeh klal gadol baTorah! V’ahavta l’reyacha kamochaaaa, zeh klal gadol baTorah!

    C’mon people, it’s Pesach! Let’s start working towards the achdus of matan torah now! Shake and make up, and let’s all enter Pesach with a smile

    #940911

    rebdoniel
    Member

    I know people who incorporate all kinds of shiurim, dancing, creativity, etc. into the seder.

    Keeping people up until 5 in the morning isn’t so good. How will they daven shacharit and musaf with kavanah?

    And all kinds of bells and whistles aren’t what it’s about. It’s about sippur yetziat mitzrayim and telling over the pshat of the haggadah.

    #940912

    playtime
    Member

    RABBAIM- Thank you for being more receptive and explanatory.

    Sounds like your family enjoys the length of your Seder, as long as you don’t do it to win the ‘When did you finish your Seder last night’ contest.

    “BTW if you learnt the Halachos, speaking Pilpul about Hilchos Pesach is part of Sipur Yeyzias Mitzaryim”

    No it is not. Not if you miss the basic story.

    By the way, just curious, how long is Shulchan Orech by you?

    #940913

    talmud, I feel for you. Perhaps you should consider taking this up with your father?

    “Talmud, how old are you? A mature adult who has any spirituality would not be wheere you are. YOu need tikun gadol!! Try a dsicovery program! Be mekarev yourself to Yiddishkeit”

    That is entirely inappropriate. Even if I would agree with some elements of your hashkafa, you do not yell and scream it (or anything else, for that matter) at somebody else as if they’re the biggest rasha in the world.

    “I’ve had Rabbeim like you, who are very imposing of their Chumros. Instead of being Mekarev people, you push people back.”

    +1

    #940914

    RABBAIM
    Participant

    Talmud….. Now that we are on the same page…

    1- We discuss in Hagada the time of sipur and how you can be Yotzai.. from here the Halcha seforim prove that speaking in depth about the Halacha is part of sippur. and it is all done with the Korban Pesach on the table. Mahral says all halacha inyanim of the seder now or tehn is part of sipur.

    2-You are absolutely right….. pilpul can be part of the sipppur but the story at different levels is what it is all about. For the lamdan it get exciting when he can delve into lomdus as well. But the mesader needs to know the audience and he has a chiyuv to teach each child appropriately. Children can even be older as well.

    2- Our seder?? We try to start the Matza eating 60-70 minutes before Chatzos so that we can have 40-45 for the seuda. we have soup and chicken with sides . Dessert is afikoman. we start Afikomn bargaining about 15 minutes before chatzos so the kids can have a great fun time and adults finish eating and then eat afikoman 5 minutes before chatzos. Then with the pressure off we can hear “personal stories” or individual amida in nisayon ….. how we survived or withstood and grew from our makos of the year. Our makos bring us closer to geula from this galus.

    After 4th cup people who need/want go to sleep ( after a litlle clean up) Those who want try to fullfill the dictum of fqalling asleep while engaged in sioour…… A few of us try to say an enivened Shir Hashirim and then fall asleep with hashkafa/ Chassidieshe toros. Looking forward. I hope you can find a way to enjoy yours this year. Kdai to broach with your father if he is receptive……… Biderch kavod.

    Chag Kasher Visameach!!

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