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if speed travels at a speed (299,792,458 mps) than that means everything we are seeing is in the past, for example whatever we see of the sun happened 8.33 minutes ago. If thats the case than what are scientists seeing when they think they see something more than 6000 lightyears away, which technichaly means it happened more than 6000 years ago
(this is not meant in a kfirahdik way)
I once met a person so offended by this question that he declared it “a secular lie devised by scientists to break out Emunah”. He said that we see everything as it happens and that light takes no time to travel. That was a stupid answer.
The simple answer is that old things don’t necessarily go against creationist beliefs. We believe that God created rocks that look like they’re millions of years old. So too He created stars that look like they’re millions or billions of years old. At the time of B’raishis He created it so that their light was only a few thousand light-years from Earth and now we’re seeing them.
Nothing kfiradik about it. You are correct, they are seeing something from years ago.
I like that question.
Officially, the farthest that the Hubble space telescope has seen so far is about 10-15 billion light-years away.
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No scientists say that this world is only 6000 years old. I’m saying that they are billions of light-years away but were only created thousands of years ago. An All-powerful Creator can do things like that, you know.
The easiest way to explain this, is that Adam was created as an adult. He was 1 day old, but looked like he was, let’s say, 25 years old.
Time, to many scientists appears to be relativistic, meaning the rate at which time flows is different now than in earlier stages of existence.
I like Sam2’s explanation (2nd paragraph). HKB”H can create that which appears to us as being very old, but in reality still exists within the 6000 (or 12 000) year timeframe.
There are rare cases in medicine/biology of humans having accelerated lives, meaning a 20 year old could appear to be in his mid 50’s, etc…
And did we not already read the Haggadah that says Rebbe Elazar Ben Azarya (18 at the time) had a 70 year old beard/face?
The Mekubal Rav Yitzhak D’Min Acco (a student of the Ramba”n), 13th century resolved the time differential and came up with a computation in the billion year magnitude.
Our galaxy is thought to be only about 2 light years from end to end.
The Hubble space telescope sees other galaxies, billions of light years away. It could be they existed before earth.
Then there’s no inconsistency there.
Our galaxy is thought to be only about 2 light years from end to end.
This must be a mistake Proxima Centauri (the nearest star after the earth) is 4 1/4 light years away
Did the first trees have rings in them?
Did the first trees have rings in them?
And did the first rings have trees in them?
yitay: The chicken came before the egg.
zahavasdad- My bad, I checked it up and I was way off. Thanks for the correction.
But think about it this way:
When you look into a telescope and see distant stars at the edge of our milky way, does that mean that its light has reached earth, or has your sight ‘traveled to the star’ through the telescope?
Torah613Torah – that’s a different shaylah.
I once was in a restaurant and ordered a piece of shnitzel and an omelet, just to see which would come first.
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“Did the first trees have rings in them?”
Depends. Were they planted on the third day and grown naturally thereafter, or were they created fully grown? I think the oldest known individual (non-clonal) tree isn’t more than 5k years old, so there’s really no problem either way.
And remember, why on earth do we need to think that briyas haolam happened in the context of what we consider is a day. There wasn’t even a sun or moon til the fourth day- there’s no actual day.
And considering that there’s a passuk or chazal that every day for Hashem is a thousand years, we really don’t need to be tied down to 6000 years, do we?
Also my AP Bio class has a theory about the chicken and the egg. Evolutionarily speaking (which is how you have to think in AP Bio, for those at risk of being offended), the egg has to come first, as whatever creature evolved into the common chicken probably laid eggs, considering that other species also lay eggs.
“One of the more sophisticated aspects of Trollish culture is their traditional view of time. As the past, where we have been, can be ‘seen’, whereas the future, where we are going, lies in front of us, they logically conclude we are going through time facing backwards. Also, since they are a nocturnal race, the trollish equivalent of the ‘Dawn of Time’ is the ‘Sunset of Time.'”
–Wikipedia entry on “Troll (Discworld)”
OOM: Yes, I did find that funny.
It just doesn’t seem to be a good thread til the Discworld connection is noted, does it…
torah613- as a metter of fact, im pleased to let the oilam know that the maharal diskin is mifurash that the egg came first. he is midayek three lishonos of rashi in parshahs breishis and says the egg came first. i love this one. sam2, i think youd enjoy it. ayin shum.
Can we make this a thing? Hijacking threads, that is. ^_^
3yo thread
Bump 🙂
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