Seemingly ordinary things that are actually a problem in halacha or Kabalah

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  • #615370

    theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/something-i-noticed-a-lot-of-people-do-because-they-probably-dont-know this

    Things mentioned in that thread:

    The original subject: Interlocking fingers (To what extent? Even the tips?)

    except “in times of Za’am or raging tzorus, [when] one should daven with his hands clasped together and his fingers interlocking.”

    (Lebidik Yankel:

    I saw a video today and Rav Elyashiv does cross his fingers (the famous video about the shaitels) and I heard from a talmid of Rav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach that he was accustomed to do so too. Is seems they felt the issue was only during tfilla.)

    “only on a Meis are more than one person allowed to work on the same person” (e.g., helping them dress or undress)

    Not cutting the nails in order is also for

    the reason of it being the way of a Meis.

    Likewise cutting fingernails and toenails on the same day.

    (Mikvah is the exception where people cut off both on the same day. -Sam2)

    Likewise sleeping with one’s feet towards the door.

    Not to place one’s hands behind one’s back.

    One should not cut their nails on Thursday,

    as they will regrow on Shabbos.

    BelieveYouMe:

    Did anyone ever hear of this one? Never walk over a person because supposedly they would not grow. And if you did walk over that person, you should walk right back over him.

    Sam2:

    BYM: If someone asked me, I would say that it’s an Issur D’Oraisa of Darchei HaEmori.

    But it is found in 1 (exactly 1) very recent T’shuvah Sefer and his reason for the Minhag is that… SheKein HaNashim Makpidim Al Zeh. (In an adjacent T’shuvah he mentions that he never let his children see their reflection before they grew teeth because otherwise their teeth would never grow in.)

    Things not mentioned in that thread:

    A baby trying to look above (and behind) its head

    Pouring underhand (Meis)

    Fastening buttons in order (Meis)


    Please add more if you know of any.

    #1085032
    Letakein Girl
    Participant

    WHAT?!

    I’ve never heard of at least 5 of those supposed issurim. Not that that really counts for much, because I’m not some lomdish guy, but still!

    I’ve seen many respected rebbetzins walking around with their hands behind ther back…

    Oh, and my eight month old nephew had the lovely experience of admiring his adorable visage in the mirror long before his teeth grew in!

    I do remember learning about not cutting nails on Thursday- if I remember correctly, that’s just a good thing to do, not an aveira. I might be wrong about that, though…

    I feel like some of these (if not most of them) are just superstitions from the Dark Ages that somehow got passed on to the next generation as halacha.

    Once we’re on the topic, I heard something about it being dangerous to drink an even number of cups of wine. Anyone have a source for this?

    #1085033
    screwdriverdelight
    Participant

    do you have a m.m. for those 3? And please explain the 1st

    #1085034
    Joseph
    Participant

    Pouring a drink backwards.

    #1085035
    screwdriverdelight
    Participant

    There’s no issur to cut your nails on Thurs. it’s just that you weren’t mikayyeim kavod shabbos because it will grow back, (but it’s not worse than not cutting them at all)

    LG, p’sachim 109b

    #1085036
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    For anyone looking for mekor keneged most of these see

    Devarim 18:13

    #1085037
    MRS PLONY
    Participant

    Comlink-X, how do you stop a baby from trying to look above or behind his head? (Or her head, as the case may be?)

    #1085038
    Letakein Girl
    Participant

    Thanks, SDD.

    #1085039
    mw13
    Participant

    Although I’ve heard of most of these. I never heard that buttoning in order or putting one’s hand behind one’s back is problematic (although I think I saw somewhere that there’s an inyan al pi kabbalah not to put on’s hands below one’s waist).

    As for cutting nails on Thursday, the Mishnah Berurah holds that the only problem is that one is not mekayaim kavod Shabbos, as SSD said. However, the Elyah Rabbah holds that there is a real Halachic problem with doing this, since it is causing one’s nails to grow on Shabbos.

    #1085040
    2qwerty
    Participant

    Not to put on or take off multiple pieces of clothing at the same time (think tshirt & tzitzis). if i remember correctly it may cause forgetfulness. 🙂

    #1085041
    Sam2
    Participant

    Comlink: Let’s just clarify some things.

    Some bring down Al Pi Kaballah not to put hands behind one’s back. It’s clearly Muttar Al Pi Nigleh (see the Tzitz Eliezer’s Tshuvah about putting hands behind one’s back during Shmoneh Esrei).

    I have been searching for years and never found a Makor about the feet towards the door thing. Anyone care to help me out? Maybe PAA?

    The cutting nails on Thursday thing is a Chumra in several Achronim as a lack of Kavod Shabbos/quasi-Chillul Shabbos issue. It’s certainly a minority opinion, but many are still Mapkid on it. Sort of. (The Mishnah Brurah brings down that the Kabbalistic Ayin Hara of cutting both feet and hands on one day trumps this so one should cut their toenails on Thursday and fingernails on Friday or vice versa.)

    I have never heard the fastening buttons in order thing.

    2qwerty: Putting on multiple garments at once is Kasheh L’shich’cha. Taking them off is not.

    #1085042
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
    #1085043
    cozimjewish
    Member

    Never heard of a couple of those – hands behind back and clasping fingers. About the teeth, just heard that a baby is not supposed to look in the mirror before he can talk, nothing about teeth. Pouring underhand – I heard coz that’s how they do it in a church?? (Probably baloney) Also about the buttons in order, I never heard of it I just don’t do my buttons in order coz I figured it’s probably wrong. G2K it really is 🙂 I also heard that ur not supposed to sleep with your head towards the door (and ur feet, as mentioned above). And also, not passing a baby over the table. Is that true?

    #1085044
    mw13
    Participant

    Now for some good ‘ol Halacha:

    The Shulchan Oruch paskens (O”C 470) that one may not say “this animal / piece of meat is for Pesach”, since it looks like one is designating a Korban Pesach and then eating Kudshem ba’chutz. The Mishna Berurah says down that the same would apply to saying “buying meat for Pesach”.

    #1085045
    screwdriverdelight
    Participant

    All the things which one shouldn’t do because that’s what they do by a meis, (my friend’s question–) why don’t the cut the meis’s fingernails out of order, etc., and let everyone else cut it normally?

    mw13: I didn’t check up the eiliyah rabbah, but the MB quotes it from him.

    #1085046
    mw13
    Participant

    SSD, I may have mixed up the names. I’ll try to look it up again.

    #1085047

    Not drinking even cups of wine is Baba Metziah 86a in the middle, but dont just read that story, make sure you get the one right in the beginning too (though after a little it does get pretty weird)

    #1085048
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    The main mention of it is in Arvei Psachim.

    #1085049

    I’ll get back to this later, b’li neder,

    but I just realized I forgot something:

    Sitting at the corner of a table.

    #1085050

    why don’t they cut the meis’s fingernails out of order, etc.,

    and let everyone else cut it normally?

    I was thinking of that too.

    Maybe so as not to inconvenience the Chevra Kaddisha?

    #1085051

    (^I don’t think that was a good answer.)

    I should have written more clearly about my intention, namely,

    to see if posters could either substantiate or debunk the things

    mentioned, as well as give more examples of this sort of thing.

    I didn’t mean to make a definite statement that they were assur

    (which I accidentally did with the thread’s title).

    __________________________________

    Additional things mentioned in this thread (and not confirmed/debunked):

    I think I saw somewhere that there’s an inyan al pi kabbalah

    not to put on’s hands below one’s waist.

    Passing a baby over a table.

    __________________________________

    I heard something about it being dangerous to drink an even number of cups of wine. Anyone have a source for this?

    >>

    P'sachim 109b. (And Bava Metziah 86a.)

    If I’m not mistaken, cups of wine are not the only thing

    the Gemara in P’sachim warns against even numbers of.

    Likewise IINM, most people nowadays are not makpid on it.

    do you have a m.m. for those 3?

    No.

    Pouring a drink backwards.

    I said it (“underhand”).

    (Or, if that was in response to SDD, that was 2nd.)

    For anyone looking for mekor keneged most of these see
    Devarim 18:13

    Presumably, the posuk is “Tomim tihyeh…”

    Comlink-X, how do you stop a baby from trying to look above or behind his head? (Or her head, as the case may be?)

    I think the theory of those who say this goes that it won’t unless

    you talk to it from that position, or move out of its field of vision in that direction (“and behind” was not meant as a second case). This “issue” is one I’m rather skeptical about…

    #1085052
    cozimjewish
    Member

    Comlink-X – I said the passing a baby over the table one

    #1085053
    oomis
    Participant

    1) Not to place one’s hands behind one’s back.

    2) One should not cut their nails on Thursday,

    as they will regrow on Shabbos.

    I have seen a choshuveh Rosh Yeshivah walking with his hands clasped behind his back ALL THE TIME.

    Hashem makes your nails grow. Presumably if it were an issur, He would stop the growth, Your nails and hair grow ANYWAY, every day, so even if not cut, they will continue to grow on Shabbos. (Did you know that nails and hair even continue to grow after death, for a short while?) I really don’t get this particular issue.

    #1085054
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Did you know that nails and hair even continue to grow after death, for a short while?

    That’s a myth.

    #1085055
    cozimjewish
    Member

    you’re supposed to cut toe nails on thursday, and fingernails on friday

    #1085056
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    2) One should not cut their nails on Thursday,

    as they will regrow on Shabbos.

    At the risk of asking a silly question… they’ll grow on Shabbos if you cut them on Friday or any other day of the week. They don’t stop growing. So, can someone please explain this?

    Secondly, even if they do grow on Shabbos, so what? It’s not a melacha — any more than it is for your hair to grow on Shabbos. So, what’s the issue?

    If you’re going to tell me that it’s a kavod Shabbos issue (i.e. that they won’t be freshly trimmed for Shabbos), that I can understand. But I don’t get what the issue is with them growing *on* Shabbos (which they’re going to do no matter what day of the week you cut them on).

    The Wolf

    #1085057
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I heard something about it being dangerous to drink an even number of cups of wine. Anyone have a source for this?

    P’sachim 109b.

    Consdering that that’s probably right in the middle of the Perek Arvei P’sachim, which discusses the halachos of a meal in which we are *required* to drink an even number of cups of wine, I’d be curious to know how the gemara comes to this rule?

    The Wolf

    #1085058
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    ??? ????? ?? ??????: ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???

    #1085059
    writersoul
    Member

    What does it mean pouring over/underhanded?

    #1085060
    streekgeek
    Participant

    Anyone ever hear of a married person not sitting between two people of the opposite gender (even if one of them is your spouse and the other is your sibling)?

    Not to put on or take off multiple pieces of clothing at the same time (think tshirt & tzitzis). if i remember correctly it may cause forgetfulness. 🙂

    Heard of this one too and would love a source.

    Also, anyone know a source about getting rid of cut nails? My mother holds that it has to get washed away (down the drain, in the toilet…) because it’s a part of your body. Is something wrong with the just wrapping well and throwing out?

    Is there a source that a pregnant woman should not gaze at animals? And what about stepping on cut nails? (I know that’s a well-known one, but what’s the source?)

    #1085061
    Sam2
    Participant

    streek: Stepping on cut nails is a Gemara. Pashtus is there’s no problem with a trash. A landfill is just as gone as the toilet.

    It’s not sitting between two women. It’s walking between them. It causes forgetfulness. Horiyos 13b (putting on 2 pieces of clothing same source).

    #1085062
    streekgeek
    Participant

    It’s not sitting between two women. It’s walking between them. It causes forgetfulness. Horiyos 13b

    What about a married woman between two men (and is it different if it’s her husband and her brother)?

    #1085063
    Rebbe Yid
    Participant

    See Orach Chaim 260:1/mogen avrohom/taz/mishne brura

    Cut nails on Friday because they regrow on 3rd day, so if you do it Thurs it will be on shabbos and that would not be kovodik to have the nails grow on the day you bedavka want them cut for.

    From Rashi mashma that people used to cut on Thurs but probably because they didn’t have time on Friday.

    Not to cut on same day fingernails and toenails so do latter on Thurs and former on Fri.

    Don’t leave nails lying around because danger to pregnant woman. Gemara says chasid burns them, tzadik buries them, rasha throws them wherever. Ri Milunel says it’s a problem because it will frighten the woman (she will think she stepped on a scorpion) but this doesn’t square with the understanding that if there’s shinui mokom there’s no sakono. Machlokes whether just moving them around in the same room is considered shinui mokom (as one eitzah is to just sweep the floor).

    Specific order of fingernail cutting given, Maharam and Ari not concerned, tov lizaheir lechatchila.

    Some places follow tzvoa’s R. Yehuda Hachosid to not haircut/shave/nailcut on rosh chodesh even if it falls on erev shabbos.

    #1085064
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    Streek!! Welcome back!! Long time no see.

    The status of marriage plays no role. It’s a male between two females and a female between two males. Any males, any females.

    #1085065
    lesschumras
    Participant

    The source for all these are located in Gemara Baba Maisa. It also says it is assur to step into an open elevator shaft on Shabbos

    #1085066
    besalel
    Participant

    From the kitzur shulchun aruch

    ?? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????, ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ??? ??????, ??? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ????.

    #1085067
    lesschumras
    Participant

    I agree with Wolfish Musings. Hair and nails grow from the root, not the tip and thus cutting has no impact on their growth.

    #1085068
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Then you’re also not understanding the reason for the din.

    #1085069
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    What about a married woman between two men (and is it different if it’s her husband and her brother)?

    isnt there a gemara in the end of pesachim aboout that, or is that only walking in between?

    also, is there something wrong with leaving shoes under a bed (cleaning lady bsheim another client)

    #1085070
    Joseph
    Participant

    Leaving food under a bed someone sleeps on.

    #1085071

    My mother always told me not to walk over people as it will cause them to stop growing. If you do you have to step over them and that will resume their growing. Did anyone ever hear of that one? I’ve heard of a lot of things. My teacher told me that the reason you don’t interlock your fingers is because the right hand is Middas HaChesed (I think) and the left hand is Middas HaGevurah and it will be mixing the Sefirois or something like that. So yeah.

    #1085072
    Avi K
    Participant

    Not letting children look at pictures of non-kosher animals. So much for the flags of the shevatim and bringing them to Ashkenazic shuls (pictures of lions as well as the flags). I knew a talmid of Rav Scheinberg who decided to be makpid so he asked his parents not to bring such pictures as gifts at the bert. When the gifts were opened it was discovered that Rav Scheinberg’s wife gave pictures of bears.

    As for walking between two women ,some say it is immodest. Not walking between two dogs or pigs is probably safer. BTW, just because something is mentioned in the Gemara does not necessarily mean that we pasken that way. A case in point is not leaving eggs, garlic or onions unpeeled overnight (see “The Weekly Halachah Discussion”, v.2 p. 460 ff.)

    #1085073
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Aruch Hashulchan Orach Chaim 260:6:

    ?? ????? ?”? ????? ?”? ???? ??? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ??”? ????? ?? ??”? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ???? ?’ ???? ???????? ????? ????

    ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ??????

    ???? ?’ ??? ???? ????? ??? ???????? ????? ????

    ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ??”? ???? ?? ???? ???”? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ?’ ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ????”? ????? ?????”? ?????

    ????? ??????”? ?? ????? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?? ?? ??”?

    ???? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????

    (emphasis added)

    #1085074
    cozimjewish
    Member

    Avi K – don’t we have to add salt or something if we leave them overnight? And also I heard you aren’t supposed to leave water uncovered overnight

    #1085075
    Joseph
    Participant

    Isn’t the thing about not leaving a drink uncovered overnight since we’re worried something might poison it?

    #1085076
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    A case in point is not leaving eggs, garlic or onions unpeeled overnight

    That’s not the best example, since many, probably most, poskim are machmir.

    See, for example:

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=920&pgnum=249

    #1085077
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    cozimjewish:

    See the first paragraph of Igros Moshe Orach Chaim 4:100:

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14675&st=&pgnum=292

    #1085078
    cozimjewish
    Member

    Joseph – a snake, I think…but I’m wondering if it still applies today

    #1085079
    Joseph
    Participant

    Why makes you question whether today is different in this regard?

    #1085080
    cozimjewish
    Member

    Joseph – coz what’s the likelihood of a snake coming and poisoning your water?

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