Sefiras HaOmer Issues

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  • #596571

    shlishi
    Member

    This thread is designed to ask and answer any and all questions regarding Sefiras HaOmer. Please add your own inquiries below, and answer any previously asked questions that you might have an answer to.

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    Can a person change from one year to the next year which 33 days (i.e. the first 33 or the last 33) he keeps for not listening to music/not shaving? If so, why is it not considered like a “minhug”, which generally a person is not supposed to change from his father’s/family established minhugim?

    If you keep the first 33, can you listen to music on Chol HaMoed?

    Who keeps all 49 days? (Minhug Arizal?)

    If you forgot whether you said or missed a previous days Sefiras HaOmer count, can you continue counting with a brocha?

    Can/must women count the Sefira with a brocha?

    Until how late the next day can you still count last night’s Omer? (i.e. Tzeis Hakochovim?)

    #763196

    BasYisroel94
    Participant

    1- In my fam we keep the whole thing, but listen to music both chol hamoed and lag b’omer.

    2- What are the different minhagim regarding the time you ‘keep’ it? Why 1st half, why 2nd half?

    Thanks

    #763197

    shlishi
    Member

    BY94: Many people keep either the first 33 days or the last 33 days. I’ve heard that some even change which (first or last) from year to year. The reason only 33 days is since Rabi Akiva’s talmidim were niftar over a 33 day period during the Omer.

    Good point about Lag B’Omer. I think everyone, even those keeping the full 49 days, per the Arizal, listen to music and shave on Lag B’Omer.

    #763198

    BasYisroel94
    Participant

    shlishi~

    So thats why we don’t do things (music etc)? And the reason why ppl keep a diff 33 is bc we are unsure which 33 days? (I made that up- is there a diff reason..?)

    Also, what’s the Arizal’s minhag? Why do the full thing?

    #763199

    are you seriously askihng these questions here, for a real answer? i sure hope not.

    what i know:

    theres no first 1/2 or second 1/2.

    everyone listens to music on chol hamoed

    there are two times people keep it,

    1) from r”ch iyar- shvus (3 days before)

    2) from pesach till lag baomer

    then there are those who are makpid to keep the whole thing, i don’t know if it’s specifically the ari”zal i think its chassidish.

    those who keep from pesach till lag baomer don’t cut their hair on lag baomer itself only after.

    women are not obligated in counting sfira

    #763200

    With Lag B’Omer, we say “miktzas hayom k’kulo”. Those who do not do the AriZ”Ls minhag, do not listen to music on the eve of Lag B’omer. Only after the day (morning) has begun.

    #763201

    Shticky Guy
    Participant

    I also have the minhag to keep ‘the whole sefira’ from Pesach to Shavuos from the arizal as do many nusach sefard people. The reasoning is simple. There are 33 days between Pesach and Shavuos to mourn on if you exclude days on which there is no aveilus such as yomtov, shabbos and rosh chodesh. Check it!

    #763202

    Shlishi thanks for starting this thread. When I lived in EY many years ago, I davened Neitz and I remember people counting Sefira at the Minion instead of during Marriv. Do other Posters count during Shacarit, and why then instead of at the end of Maaiv? My question is, is it a personal Minhag to count in the Morning?

    #763203

    What is the Source of the Minhag?

    #763204

    m in Israel
    Member

    Did they count with a Beracha in the morning? Many people count every morning as an extra precaution in case they forget somehow one night.

    #763205

    moishy
    Participant

    1.R’ Moshe Feinstein says you can.

    2.Yes

    #763206

    BS”D

    Chabad chassidim do not take haircuts on Lag beOimer but we do listen to music – in fact we have big parades and public programs as per the Rebbe ZYA’s instructions. Eve of Lag beOimer – I think we do listen but I am really not sure. I tend to be too busy to care :). We most certainly listen to music on Chol HaMoied Pesach. We do take haircuts and listen to music during the shloisha ymei hagbolo before Shavuos and we have weddings on those days as well (just as we do on Lag beOimer). I think all Chassidim who “keep all 49 days” have similar minhagim.

    Creedmoor is the exception. In Creedmoor, they count “bein hametzorim” – from Yom haAtzamois on 5 Iyar to Tisha be’Av. Instead of the 10 sefiros they use the Arba Misois Beis Din and other punishments to name the days. So, Yom haAtzamois is skila shebeskila and 9 Av is malkois shebemalkois or knas shebeknas (I forget which). [EDIT – it is actually Kooreys shebeKooreys and it is celebrated by schechting and grilling rubber duckies as a seudas hamafsekes.)

    #1266222

    mik5
    Participant

    Chabad Chassidim do NOT take haircuts on any day of sefira, except erev Shavuos (and erev Shabbos which erev Shavuous is a Shabbos). This is based on the Arizal, since based on kabbalah, the days of sefiras haomer are likened to Chol Hamoed and are days of din. [Don’t ask; it’s a kabbalistic thing.] There are different customs regarding which days are the correct days, so if you want to act in a way that will satisfy all opinions, then you keep the whole sefira.
    You may listen to music Chol Hamoed Pesach.
    Women technically don’t have to count but many do (according to Sephardic and kabbalistic custom, women should not count).

    Switching sefiras is a complicated question and should only be done in a case of dire need.

    #1266244

    Sadigurarebbe
    Participant

    Regarding oft misquoted Rav Moshe.

    “Rav Moshe’s Ruling

    However, this is not so clear-cut nor unanimous. In fact, and although widely and seemingly erroneously quoted as holding that one may indeed switch between ‘First’ and ‘Second Sefirahs’ in different years[18], Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l, actually qualified such action[19]. He clarifies that for Ashkenazim to be allowed to do so would depend on the difference of opinions between the Bach and Vilna Gaon as to the interpretation of the Rema’s ‘First Sefirah’. He explains that according to the Bach both minhagim are based on keeping 33 days; it technically should not matter which 33 days are kept. Accordingly, one may switch ‘Sefirahs’ in different years.

    Yet, according to the Gr”a, the ‘First Sefirah’ is solely due to the Talmidim dying only then. If so, maintains Rav Moshe, how can one switch ‘Sefirahs’, if each is mutually exclusive, based on different accountings? If one holds that the Talmidim only died up until Lag B’Omer, how can he, in the very next year, follow a different minhag, which is based on a shittah that they did not actually die at that time, or vice versa? Therefore, he maintains that according to the Gr”a one may not switch ‘Sefirahs’ from year to year.

    Additionally, Rav Moshe holds that the ‘Second Sefirah’ is the true Ashkenazic minhag and that ‘First Sefirah’ is essentially a Sefardic minhag[20]. He therefore concludes that an Ashkenazi may not switch from ‘Second Sefirah’ to the ‘First Sefirah’, as lechatchilla we should not be lenient against the shitta of the Gr”a, except under extremely extenuating circumstances’[21].”

    #1266245

    Joseph
    Participant

    Chabad aren’t the only ones who hold all 49, per the Arizal.

    #1266262

    mik5
    Participant

    Some Poskim  (including Harav Moshe Feinstein Zatzal  in Igros Moshe ibid.) maintain that in certain instances and with the guidance of a Rav, one may switch his/her “33 days” from year to year if necessary (hataras nedarim may be necessary in order to do this), while others are stringent and maintain that one must continually follow the same minhag each year. (See Michtavim U’ma’amarim from the Gaon Harav Elazar Menachem Mann Shach Zatzal vol. 6 page 71 for the reasoning why changing would not be permitted.)

    #1266441

    147
    Participant

    This year, Shelosho Yemei Hagbolo are a Sunday, Monday, Tuesday:- Many barbers are closed on Sunday, and on Monday Memorial Day. Tuesday Erev Shovu’os, lines shall also be very long. I don’t want to take time off work just for waiting on line for a haircut, nor do I want to loose precious napping time for waiting on line, jeopardizing my awakeness during Shovu’os nite. Hence by necessity, this year I am observing 1st 33 days, albeit effectively, my hair & beard only being 31 days of growth this year.

    #1266460

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Maybe they can implement the number system where people just take the next number out of the roll, wait no because the loud speaker may wake you.

    On second thought, maybe they can give everyone waiting for a haircut one of those vibrating discs to inform you of when it’s your turn. Then they have a dorm next door with beds where you can nap until it’s your turn.

    Or you can get your haircut while sleeping. Somehow.

    #1270127

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    I checked. I got 34, which is close enough that I suspect I did something wrong. Do you count Pesach Sheni? Do you stop erev erev Shavuos?

    #1270621

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    147: I don’t know where you live but in my neighborhood the barbers are opened on Sundays and on Memorial day so the lines on Erev Yom Tov will not be so long.

    #1271328

    tobs
    Participant

    question: am i allowed to listen to music on Motzei Shabbos or do i have to wait for the next day?

    #1271337

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    You have to wait.

    I know there is a chassidishe minhag to make a “hadlakah” and have live music (I don’t know the rationale for it), but I think even they agree to the basic ide of “miktzas yom k’kulo” not applying until the day.

    #1513214

    icemelter
    Participant

    so can you take a haircut erev lag b’omer, leil, or lag b’omer day?

    #1513239

    Joseph
    Participant

    If you follow Minhag Ari HaKodesh then none.

    #1513266

    icemelter
    Participant

    Yes. Im referring to minhag Ashkenaz or those who take haircuts lag b’omer.

    #1513288

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    LC: Lag bomer day, not night.

    Is that psak of Reb Moshe given above accurately represented? It seems like it hasn’t really gained any wide acceptance if so. The overwhelming majority of American Ashkenazim seem to keep first sfirah.

    #1513327

    Joseph
    Participant

    “The overwhelming majority of American Ashkenazim seem to keep first sfirah.”

    This point isn’t accurate at all.

    #1513365

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    We don’t practice avelos in Nisan, so we start sefira from Rosh Chodesh Iyyar excluding lag beamor until sloshas yemai hakboloh.

    #1514349

    Lubavitcher
    Participant

    We listen to music only on chol hamoid and lag baomer.
    No hair cutting at all except an upshernish on lag baomer.
    Woman count sefira with a bracha.
    (in english we keep the whole sefira. and i didint mention shabing because lubavitcher men dont shave at all)

    #1514979

    cherrybim
    Participant

    R’Moshe holds no music for the entire year.

    #1515255

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “This point isn’t accurate at all.”

    Perhaps if you live in some minhag haGra stronghold. In the baalhabatish world, second sfira is unheard of from what I’ve seen. And, don’t bring proofs down from poskim; I’m talking about reality, not theory.

    #1515256

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Chabad women say the brachah? Don’t they usually not say brachos on mitzvos aseh shezman grama?

    #1515461

    Joseph
    Participant

    Neville, a huge portion of baalebatim go by the second sefira.

    #1515488

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Neville, most Chabadniks are Ashkenazim, and the poskim accepted in Chabad were Ashkenazim, so they held like the Tosfos that women do say brochos. I don’t know what Sefardi Chabadniks do.

    #1515532

    rofehardamah
    Participant

    In my family we keep all 49 days
    By counting with a ברכה !!!

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