December 19, 2013 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #611615
Has anyone seen Aish’s article by Rabbi Benjamin Blech about selfies and narcissism? What are your thoughts? Do you think that more people today are narcissists than in previous generations???December 19, 2013 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #995461oomisParticipant
I haven’t seen the article, but absolutely believe we are a much more narcissistic generation. We are a generation of entitlement, across the board (meaning, not necessarily the frum velt), where people feel they deserve a handout from the government, for doing absolutely nothing in return. We are selfish, and self-absorbed, and out for number one.
That said – I also believe that despite some possessing this flaw, the Jewish people as a whole, and frum people in particular, are the MOST concerned with others’ welfare, with doing chessed, giving tzedaka (because it is the righteous thing to do and not merely charity), and volunteering for hatzalah, chaverim, bikur cholim, more per capita, than any other group of people worldwide.
There is nothing wrong with loving oneself, as long as it does not hurt others, and is not to excess. There is a Tzelem Elokim in all of us, and it SHOULD be loved.December 19, 2013 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #995462
We live in a very selfish world and yes many psychologists have noticed that many teens today are narcissistic. We live in a crazy world and the only way to maintain a certain level of sanity is to immerse yourself in Torah and try to block out the goyish velt as much as possible.December 19, 2013 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #995463
So segregation doesn’t stem from thoughts of a narcissist? Lack of women’s rights, slavery, serfs and lords…all nothing to do with feeling superior over others and obsessing over yourself????December 19, 2013 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #995464
Not clear what your last comment is relevant to.December 19, 2013 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #995465
We are bred woth narcissism. It even made its way into the current Hashkafa. It shaped the tone of many inspiration speeches of our day.December 19, 2013 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #995466
Gadlus haadam isnt narcissism.December 19, 2013 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #995467
My point is that it’s not specifically this generation who is obsessed with themselves and self image. It is human nature and it comes out differently in different time periods. Last century it was womens rights, and before that there was slavery… so this generation has selfies. Big deal!! Personally, thats alot better than previous generation’s narcissism. Did you actually read the article?December 19, 2013 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #995468
Narcissism is not the concept of of Otherizing. It is a classless obcession with oneself.
If you are going classify all related Midos together in one stitch you are left with exactly one Mida.December 19, 2013 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #995469
WIY, to paraphrase a narcissist: If you like your speeches you can keep them.December 19, 2013 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #995470
I didnt read the article. However the point is that today the youth is narcissistic as a whole. This has never been before in history. That so many people at so young an age should be so narcissistic.December 20, 2013 12:15 am at 12:15 am #995471Torah613TorahParticipant
The book iDisorder talks about how the Internet makes people more self-centered and how that leads to various mental illnesses. Great book and you can get it used on Amazon very cheaply.December 20, 2013 1:18 am at 1:18 am #995472yitayningwutParticipant
An internet meme that recently made its way around social media portrayed a subway car circa 1920s filled with people deeply absorbed in their newspapers.
It read something like, “new technology causing people to become antisocial.”
The more things change, the more they stay the same. Self-centeredness is nothing new; it just found a new platform.December 20, 2013 3:38 am at 3:38 am #995473
So narcissism = self centered = anti social = mean = inconsiderate = OCD?December 20, 2013 11:55 am at 11:55 am #995474YW Moderator-73Moderator
the original selfie: sitting for weeks to have a ten-foot portrait of yourself made to hang in your hallwayDecember 20, 2013 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #995475☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Of course, selfishness and narcissism is not new. What’s new is the ubiquity of technology which helps foster it.
Even those who embrace the use of technology have noted the negative social effect.
Whether we deal with this by disengaging from use of technology or by limiting its use, we should at least acknowledge the problem so that we can deal with it.December 20, 2013 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #995476
Don’t you think that’s pushing the line a little bit? Selfies are in no way narcissistic. It’s called a craze that young adults and even adults are in to. Yes, there wasn’t such a thing a few years ago, but that does not give anyone the right to call this generation narcissistic. As Mod 73 pointed out, if you follow the idea of selfies being narcissistic, than the olden day portraits are even more so.December 20, 2013 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #995477
Haleivi- where did you get OCD from? It has nothing to do with anything!December 20, 2013 3:08 pm at 3:08 pm #995478
A narcissist is someone who clicks on a thread only to read what he wrote himself.December 20, 2013 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #995479Torah613TorahParticipant
Also, formerly self-portraits were limited to the very wealthy. Now everyone can do it all the time.
People who take selfies are more narcissistic than people who don’t.December 22, 2013 12:07 am at 12:07 am #995480yehudayonaParticipant
I didn’t read the article, but Rabbi Frand had an excellent video on the ubiquity of narcissism given at Sinai Indaba. It was posted on YWN.December 22, 2013 11:17 pm at 11:17 pm #995481
yehudayona – Sounds interesting, would you know when that was or how I could find it?December 23, 2013 1:33 am at 1:33 am #995482
fkelly, I figured it gets thrown into every category anyhow. If I’d believe all the diagnosis in the Heimishe papers I would have Asperger’s, ADD and schizophrenia.December 23, 2013 2:26 am at 2:26 am #995483mybrotherMember
Humility is not thinking less of yourself
but rather, thinking of yourself lessDecember 23, 2013 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #995484
Rule of thumb, don’t believe anything you read in Heimishe papers.December 23, 2013 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #995485
fkelly – let’s extend that statement little further: don’t believe anything you read, period!December 23, 2013 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #995486HLMMember
BEST article 🙂 totally agree with it.December 24, 2013 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #995487
lol HLM you are so asking for a fight…
You seriously agree with the outright lie that society today is more narcissistic than previous generations? What’s the proof to back that up? That people take selfies? I mean, seriously. Have you ever learnt world history? I know for myself that I am so glad I was born in this era and not in some previous time where people trampled on others because they weren’t white, Christian, or male. Todays generation may be a bit more self absorbed with all the technology, but to say that we’re all narcissists is, in my opinion, a bit preposterous.December 24, 2013 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #995488
All the psychologists are saying theres more narcissism. You dont have to agree. Especially since you are nogeia because you take selfies.December 24, 2013 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #995489
I am actually not a fan of selfies. No snapchatting for me…. Psychologists can talk all they want but I seriously believe they are wrong in regard to this issue.December 24, 2013 9:27 pm at 9:27 pm #995490
Read up on it. Also they are older than you and remember how things used to be. Anyone over 25 or so also remebers how things and people used to be.December 24, 2013 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #995491
I’ll agree with you on this one WIY (lol is that a first) but times have changed and even I see it, and I’m nowhere near 25. Well not nearly anyways.
I will definitely spend some time reading up on this. I’ll be back 🙂December 25, 2013 4:57 am at 4:57 am #995493
You can snapchat without selfies Streetgeek. I do it.December 25, 2013 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #995494
fkelly – I’m not a big fan of snapchatting everything I eat either.December 25, 2013 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #995495
I’ve read up a lot about this and well, I guess the number of people who are narcissistic are increasing. However, I have not found any sources saying that this increase has anything to do with young adults as individuals. Rather, it is (and here I quote) “the ‘now or never’, ‘we only live once’ ‘promote yourself’ marketing because you are the most important person in the world, or you can be if you do what everyone else is doing’. Blow your ego up or else you will be blown away, ignored by everyone.”
Also, “Lets not forget today’s parents who are raising children whose every whim must be obeyed and catered to. Our culture is saying to kids and young adults ‘be a narcissist’. Some hear the siren song and obey, and a few try to be wiser and resist. But in the tide of people rushing to follow the mass media’s sucking of everyone down the ‘rabbit hole’ or narcissism, who can resist the flood?”
However I also came across this study that says: “All great societies and civilizations passed through a similar stage of narcissism on their way to depravity and total collapse. All our technology and wealth of wisdom won’t stop us from being equally stupid. Humans are vain and can’t pass a mirror without admiring themselves. Enjoy the ride—it’s all downhill.”
A bit depressing but it sort of proves my point that it’s not only in this generation. It has happened before due to various factors. And just saying, I didn’t find anywhere that the increase in selfies is linked to narcissism. So this whole Aish article was literally making a mountain out of a molehill, which was why I started this thread. With that I rest my case.December 25, 2013 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #995496🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
you rested your case but I am not sure you bought the whole jury 🙂December 25, 2013 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #995497
So I take it back. I’ll argue this out till the very end 😉December 25, 2013 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #995498
I finally found someone with my view. Read this (written by Gracy Olmstead):
Are Instagram selfies and Twitter posts truly making us more narcissistic? Or are we merely viewing a greater publication of old human tendencies?
I would argue the latter. While the digital era could be making us more narcissistic, it seems more likely that it is doing exactly what it was created to do: showcasing the self in all its glory. As long as humans have roamed the planet, they have had selfish tendencies. But prior to the rise of social media, they did not have a global platform for this grandstanding. High school, with all its intense and sticky drama, was documented profusely in letters and diaries, but it rarely appeared in public discourse. Now, via Facebook, young adults have a communal outlet for their emotionally turbulent lives. Facebook is, in many ways, the new diary.
In addition, arguing that young adults are more narcissistic than ever seems too simplistic. Many young people are immature and tend to be self-interested. It is only with experience and age that we learn the planet does not revolve around us. Once again, this generation has a wider global platform for self-pontification than ever before. This may skew the narcissism balance in their favor. Not to mention that the young are less adept at disguising their selfishness. With age, we learn how to hide our self-absorption behind facades of one sort or another. Time makes some humble; it makes others clever.
I know this is just an opinion and is not based on facts, but the fact is this is my opinion as well, just worded a lot better.
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