selling airline miles

Thete are companies which specialize in this. At least one is currently running ads on Yeshiva World.

Gamanit, the one currently advertising publishes their phone # and address, and advertises “Fast | Legal | Reliable”.

Another that I have seen advertise actually publishes the names of the owners.

Gammit is correct, Its not really illegal, but Airlines do not allow it and if they find out they can disallow the ticket and cancel your account.

You are allowed to GIVE your miles to someone , so that is the loophole these places use, you give a ticket to someone and that person will then pay you.

Ive given a ticket to someone a few times, but I also flew with that person on the same flights so it did not raise a red flag, (Like you give your spouse or kids a ticket and fly with them or a friend and you fly somewhere together) however giving a ticket to someone and not flying with them does raise a red flag

Syag Lchochma- airlines catch many people doing it. I don’t think it is more prevalent among us than among the general population. Airlines keep trying to figure out how to prevent it.

From the FAQs page:

Yes… It is Legal.

Many airline mileage programs restrict the sale or trade of frequent flyer miles. However, you should know that there is no federal or state law prohibiting you from selling or trading your frequent flyer miles, Utah state law being the exception. Therefore, provided that the necessary precautions are taken, the sale and transfer of your miles can be a safe and secure procedure.

Cash 4 Miles goes to great lengths to ensure that each transaction is discreet and secure. Our top priority is safeguarding your account. Our highly qualified representatives screen all of our prospective buyers before they purchase, and are exceedingly vigilant when contacting the airlines. You can be assured that your account is always protected.

This does not seem right. If it’s against airline policies, then presumably you agreed to their terms, and are breaking your contract with them. There is no federal or state law forcing the airlines to disallow sale of miles, but it should still be illegal if the terms of agreement are not followed.

After further research, I’m not so sure. It seems that except for the state or states which outlaw selling miles, the airlines have no right, legally, to stop the consumer from selling miles. They do have a right to penalize the consumer, but it’s still perfectly legal to sell them, although they have a right to confiscate your miles and/or throw you out of the program. Sort of a legal cat and mouse game.

“Don’t ask don’t tell”

You seem to be equating airline miles with amex points. Even if the airlines don’t allow you to sell miles, what is stopping you from transferring your amex points into someone else’s airline account? You aren’t selling airline miles, you are selling points that happen to turn into miles. (Though if airlines have rules against this I assume amex does as well).

That being said, it seems to me that a lot of people are doing this business nowadays. The airlines aren’t dumb, they most probably know that it is going on and are allowing it to happen. From a technical standpoint it shouldn’t be that hard for them to detect it with all the technology nowadays. If they wanted to stop it, they most probably would.

breaking a contract isn’t stealing.

We have plenty of laws that make illegal all sorts of stuff, like larceny, larceny by trick, robbery, embezzlement, burglary, etc. None of those include breaking a contract.

The idea that it is stealing to break a contract is lunacy, and would violate the 13th amendment which prohibits slavery. If I make a contract to paint your house, and then my son is getting married that day–I am forced to paint your house anyway? No, I break the contract, you sue me, and I pay damages if any. But that’s a civil suit–not a criminal action!!

Popa, we would hope not. What I think might be a better example of what marbehshalom means, is, would you embezzle money from your company if it were legal.

I think there still might be a difference here; you are selling what is yours, you are just violating the t&c.

Except that if the law (dina d’malchusa) recognizes that you could sell your miles, that essentially means that it recognizes your right to transfer that z’chus.

did you see what i posted earlier.?? it seems that the law is not clear.

I don’t see that.

and even if you cant be prosecuted it doesent mean that the dina dimalchusa actually permits it . they just dont prosecute the violators

Is your distinction between civil law and criminal law? Because it isn’t illegal or immoral to do things that result in civil causes of action. Like my example with the contract.

The airlines maintain that points, mileage or whatever you want to call it, is related to the fare of a flight. When the airline industry was deregulated, congress agreed that they would not regulate fares. Ergo, the airlines argue congress can not pass any law that impacts points or miles either. they maintain it is a contract between the airline and member of program subject to whatever terms and conditions they place on their programs. Whether this argument is true or not is something the supreme court considered I believe during the “Ginsburg vs Northwest Et Al” case it heard last year. Perhaps some lawyer has access to the decision and how they ruled.

There is a din and there is a dayan. I dont know the din, or how the dayanim ruled regarding airlines miles programs.

As for advertising things that are illegal, those who are in this business claim it isnt illegal.

It is legal to sell miles. It is also legal for the airline to confiscate them or throw you off the program if they catch you.

That is the din because that’s what the dayan said.