September 8, 2013 3:46 am at 3:46 am #610529notedaskanMember
What is the halacha regarding selling stuff online on Shabbos/Yom Tov?September 8, 2013 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #973532
Its not a problem because its Halachcally not a sale. While you did get the money, the buyer did not get the Item so its not a halachic sale.
B&H does shut down their website for shabbos and Yom tov.September 8, 2013 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #973533
Would please share with us a copy of your smicha and let us know where you received shimush for psak?September 8, 2013 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #973534
This exact issue was an issue for me and I asked already a Posek as this is part of my income.
Instead of trolling during the Asseres Yemei Teshuva , why didnt you ask a Rav yourself. He would have told you a Halachic Sale is where Money is exchanged and a Buyer received an item (Sorry if I forgot the exact Hebrew words).
In an online sale the buyer did pay for the item, but he did not recive the Item.September 8, 2013 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #973535
Assuming what ZD is describing is a kinyan kesef, he is correct in saying that it wouldn’t be a sale. Kinyan kesef does not work miderabanan.
For a discussion on using kinyan kesef on shabbos, see Bava Kama 70b, Tosafos d”h ????? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ??? and the meforshim there.September 8, 2013 3:10 pm at 3:10 pm #973536
I asked a legitimate question. You have not given an answer. If you asked a shaila, why wouldn’t you tell us who made the psak. Maybe the rav was meikel for you, but is not lechatchila.
Or maybe you are not providing the correct reason. Why are you so hesitant to provide meaningful information?September 8, 2013 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #973537
There isnt even a kinyan kesef in many cases as the money does not transfer until the seller confirms the sale. that being said ask your lor as opinions on the subject may vary.September 8, 2013 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #973538
I shouldn’t get involved in your discussion, but this is just mean.
Would please share with us a copy of your smicha and let us know where you received shimush for psak?
I asked a legitimate question.
Legitimacy does not begin with sarcasm. Zahavasdad replied the same way I would have.September 8, 2013 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #973539
With the aveirah song?
If he would have said that he asked a shaila or he heard a psak, it would have been left at that. But when he presents it as his own psak or thought, it was a legitimate response.September 8, 2013 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #973540
Rule number 1 on the cr – don’t feed the trolls.September 8, 2013 10:39 pm at 10:39 pm #973541
With the aveirah song?
Objection Your Honor, the question is irrelevant.
It seems that his view was in fact correct. There is no need to quote a source every time you comment with something you know is true.September 9, 2013 12:40 am at 12:40 am #973542notedaskanMember
jbaldy22 – with paypal the money is transferred to the seller right away and is available to use.September 9, 2013 1:05 am at 1:05 am #973543
Amazon does not give you the money until you ship the item.
Paypal its mixed depending on your sales history, Newer sellers Paypal will hold the money for up to 21 days, but for experienced sellers you get the money right away, but they do have the right to take it away (as has happend to me on more than one occasion)September 9, 2013 3:58 am at 3:58 am #97354464bitsomethingParticipant
This has always been a big question to me. My local Orthodox Rabbi (he is learned in Shulchan Aruch, a known Rabbi) told me that he doesn’t see any problem with it, obviously as long as you don’t take any action on Shabbos.
However, I did send a message to Business Halacha and I quote the response, directly from HaRav Chaim Kohn Shlita:
“In my opinion, the relevant factor is not if you are paid immediately but that you permit activating your obligation to deliver. With it, you participate creating the kinyan hischayvus. Therefore, it is necessary that your website isn’t actively processing the requests on Shabbos.
KT Chaim Kohn”September 9, 2013 10:50 am at 10:50 am #973545
I did not ask a general question because I wanted to know. I asked because it was impertive to my parnassah. I happen to know some Chashuv people (Not MO Chashuv either) who know exactly what I do and how I make my income. I do not wish to say who I asked because it might give away part of my identity.
It is possible on Amazon and ebay for vacation settings., However on eBay even with vacation settings a sale could still take place especially if you write you will be returning from vacation tommorrow (Meaning Sunday) . On Amazon there is an option to send your inventory to Amazon where they warehouse the item, Sell it for you and ship it for you. There is no way to shut that off. Once Amazon has the item in their possession they will ship as needed. You get alot more sales that way so its nessasary to do so in order to make sales.
Perhaps the Rabbi from the Business Halachic institute was talking about a general website as opposed to eBay and Amazon where it works differently and its not really possible to shut down for 25 hours.September 9, 2013 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #97354664bitsomethingParticipant
While selling online is not my parnassah, it is a secondary source of income for me. I wasn’t merely ‘curious’.
And I did include ebay/amazon thinking as you did in the beginning that it would go by when you get paid. Here is my original submission:
Is selling online over Shabbos and Yom Tov allowed? I will try to
outline the differences:
The case starts obviously with you selling something online via eBay or Amazon (or your own store). However a difference (possibly — thats why I am asking) could be when you get paid. By Amazon you get paid much later (generally a week or 2) and by an eBay auction you generally get paid when the auction ends and you have control over that. But from your own store or eBay “Buy it Now” it is possible for someone to buy it and pay you on Shabbos. A big store like B&H maybe the credit cards aren’t processed on Shabbos but in these cases, PayPal or Amazon don’t care…. So how far is this ???? or ?????September 9, 2013 9:30 pm at 9:30 pm #973547
Again as zahavasdad indicated Amazon is different – sale isnt final until the seller confirms it and only then is the transfer of money initiated (except for FBA).September 9, 2013 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #973548HaLeiViParticipant
The same Shaila is about a soda machine. The Minchas Yitzchok discusses it. He included references to Shevisas Keilim. I think he was Mattir. My question here is if you will Assur it, whose Shabbos is the issue? The buyer? Seller? Server? Bank? PayPal server? PayPal bank?
The whole Issur is a Takana from Nechemia not to buy and sell. The question is if it applies here in the first place, since you aren’t making any transactions. I never heard of an Issur of Kinyan Sadeh on Shabbos. There does remain the problem of S’char Shabbos (which would probably go by the seller’s time zone). However, even that might only be through actually doing something. It is Muttar to pay after Shabbos for something that you took on Shabbos.
If you want to avoid it there is a free project holyclock dot com that disables your site on Shabbos, which I got from asite that WIY linked to (Reb Shlomo Kluger’s Sefarim).
Being that Torah discussions on this site are Lehagdil Torah Ulehadira, it is ridiculous to yell at someone for posting his thoughts on Halachic issues.
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