SEMINARY LETTERS

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  • #617227
    oilyhair
    Participant

    Sem letters are supposedly arriving this friday, feb 19. Do they come to everyone the same day, even out of town places? and do all sems come the same day?

    Is it true that a thick envelope means you got in and a thin envelope means you didnt? is it like that for all sems?

    I’M SOOOOOO NERVOUS!!!!!!!

    #1138516
    flatbusher
    Participant

    Nervous about what? Too much is made of the seminary experience. We all have been sold a big bill of goods and a very expensive one. Just remember, everything is for the best. Nothing to be nervous about

    #1138517
    rld
    Member

    I spoke to my principal today and she said that, at least for ‘out of town’cities, the seminaries are sending the letters out on weds and we should get them Thurs,Fri, or Shabbas! So I dont think everyone will get them the same day…but hopefully we will get them Thurs rather than shabbas!!

    Also, she told us that generally the rule about fat vs. thin envelopes is true 🙁

    #1138518
    oyoy
    Participant

    If you sem girls are on YWN then you’ve probalbly got open internet access and you don’t deserve to be accepted in sem.

    #1138519

    how much of the seminary experience is better if you go to Israel versus going to Seminary in the states? sure its an experience of a lifetime spending a year in israel Seminary. but how much of a difference is it chinuch wise? & can’t my daughter take a trip to Israel when she finishes seminary in the states for much less?

    most USA seminaries include a chizzuk trip to Israel or poland during the year of their Seminary

    #1138520
    mythoughts
    Participant

    I hope you get in. The Rabbis running the place need somebody to pay their salaries……

    #1138521
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Seminary is a scam.

    #1138522
    The Queen
    Participant

    bar abba: I agree

    #1138523
    Londongirl
    Member

    How academic is kesser Chaya? I’m academic but find reading Mefotshim hard however in secular subjects I’m one of the top students… Would I find kesser Chaya to boring and un- stimulating?

    #1138525
    oyoy
    Participant

    londongirl first get of YWN

    #1138526
    flatbusher
    Participant

    As far as i am concerned, Seminary is all about the Israel experience. Seminary is geared to young women who want to go into chinuch (they have courses to that effect), so yes, it is cheaper to go to Israel after seminary, and probably could stay for months for half of what seminary cost. But in our society, it seems not going to Seminary in Israel is a negative when it comes to shidduchim

    #1138527
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Seminary is geared to young women who want to go into chinuch

    lolwut?

    #1138529
    Londongirl
    Member

    Any advice about kesser Chaya? Also is bnos chava as jappy as everyone says? Would the girls b nasty if one doesn’t wear the same cloths as them?

    #1138530
    flatbusher
    Participant

    lolwut????? what does that mean?

    #1138531
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    It stands for “laugh out loud, what?”.

    In this context, it means that seminaries are marketed to all girls, regardless of career intentions.

    #1138532
    flatbusher
    Participant

    Well, my daughters went to seminary, and they had education courses and student-teaching, and theirs wasnt the only one

    #1138533
    Bored_on_the_Job
    Participant

    “Seminary is a scam.”

    Much much worse!!

    Seminary is extortion.

    The high schools convince the girls that they must go to seminary.

    The girls really want to go bec of what the school tell them as well as for the fact that it is a once in a lifetime experience/good time.

    Do parents really have a choice not to go into debt to pay for seminary,

    Plus alot of things they learn/advice are not in sync with reality.

    Do the rebbetzins who teach in these seminaries identify with the current modern day life of a kollel wife?

    Girls come back very imbalanced. They are inspired to be moser nefesh but they have no idea what sacrifice that actually entails.

    They dont know what its like to be six months pregnant up half the night with the baby for the third night in a row, and need to leave the next day to work in a car that might not start and doesnt have proper heat or ac…

    #1138534
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    So if my daughters’ seminary has computer courses, does that mean it is geared towards computer programming?

    #1138535
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Easiest way to fix the shidduch crisis would be for girls to stop going to seminary.

    #1138536
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Which shidduch crisis?

    #1138537
    Joseph
    Participant
    #1138538
    flatbusher
    Participant

    DaasYachid: No comparison. Seminary courses are in limudei kodesh. I guess with the intention that future teachers would benefit from these courses and the education courses are intended to help them put their knowledge into practice. But even so, colleges offer all sorts of courses that are required outside of one’s major.

    #1138539
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Ah, so:

    Easiest way to fix the shidduch crisis would be for average or short girls to stop going to seminary.

    FTFY

    #1138540
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Flatbusher, I said if, and my point was your last sentence. Seminaries are geared towards everyone, even if they do offer teaching courses.

    #1138541
    The Queen
    Participant

    “Easiest way to fix the shidduch crisis would be for girls to stop going to seminary.”

    If you’ll notice, it is the same crowd who thinks they have to go into debt so their daughters can spend a year in seminary in Israel, who are ensnared in the shidduch crisis. (although, I don’t see the connection between the two.)

    #1138542
    flatbusher
    Participant

    Geared to anyone who can afford to pay!

    #1138543
    golfer
    Participant

    Interesting observation, Queen.

    I wonder if anyone would care to give a speech to a large audience and expound on the implications of that point.

    Bored_on, as long as the girls get back imbalanced, and not unbalanced, the tuition dollars were well spent.

    #1138544
    Bored_on_the_Job
    Participant

    Golfer – sorry, whats the diff?

    #1138545
    flatbusher
    Participant

    Bored: I was going to write a similar post. Seminary seems to have as its mission to convince girls that they must marry a guy learning in kollel or risk not having a Torahdik home. My daughters’ seminary had one Shabbos away that they said seemed designed to highlight how wonderful kollel life is. Then the girls come back, some of them even wanting to live in Israel, but a good number of them marry guys who are sitting in learning, a lot in Lakewood it seems. From my observation, some of the girls who don’t marry right away for whatever reason become a little more realistic and realize that they would prefer to marry someone who will take care of her and the family, not visa versa. Sadly, there is a shortage of guys who do work and are serious about learning, and those who are, are of no interest to the kollel-minded girls.

    #1138546
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Sadly, there is a shortage of guys who do work and are serious about learning

    So, when the seminaries try to convince girls that they must marry a guy learning in kollel or risk not having a Torahdik home, they’re not necessarily wrong.

    #1138547
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    As much as my school stuffs it in to us that we need to marry a guy in learning (and this is still high school were talking about) I am realistic. I don’t think I would be able to work full time at all. I think I could do part time working. but not more than that. It would be lovely for my husband to learn all day when we get married but the reality is that even in shana rishona I’d want him to do some kind of work either so we can live comfortabely in shana rishona or to save up- on top of the fact that I think men need to work a bit since Hashem made them that way.

    Not everyone should learn. [email protected] – there definetly needs to be learners. But right now I think there is way too many.

    I want a guy that does learn when he can. A night chavrusa, 2 hours on shabbos, on the way and back to work-I want a guy that looks at himself realisticly and sees he cannot learn 8 hours a day but he can fit in 3 or 4. And as we have more kids it might diwndle to 1 or 2. But I want a guy that will live for those 2 hours.

    I have trouble concentrating for too long. 10 hours days of school are hard for me. But just because 10 hours is hard and I dont enjoy it doesn’t mean I can’t love 2 hours and hold on 2 hours of learning if I had every day. See my point?

    There was an asrticle in mishpacha about how a father looked at what his kids needed for a spouse rather than what everyone else had/top kids/ and so on. I think this is the cause of the shidduch crisis. We all label each other, think we need top guys with tops girls with top weddings. Look at his middos. Would you take the guy who wants to learn 8 hours but isn’t a good conversation guy over a guy who wants to learn for 2 but can talk for hours? What would work better with your needs realisticly?

    Unfortunately everyone has to put on a show and pretend we are looking for this perfect guy instead of being realistic like this.

    The miracle is that despite this messed up system people actually do get married- and a lot! The married ones should be the exception and not the rule in this system

    1

    #1138548
    flatbusher
    Participant

    Shopping girl: I know quite well that not everyone is not cut out to be a learner, and I am skeptical that many of the guys in kollel actually learn with their eyes in a sefer for 10 hours a day. I’m with you as far as the kind of guy I would like my daughters to marry, but there really aren’t that many at the moment. I suspect there are a number of guys who are in kollel only because that is what is expected of them, and that’s why places like Lakewood are bursting at the seams. And G-d for bid you should ask them what they plan to do to support their family in the future. Hatzlacha in your search.

    #1138549
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Sadly, there is a shortage of guys who do work and are serious about learning

    So, when the seminaries try to convince girls that they must marry a guy learning in kollel or risk not having a Torahdik home, they’re probably contributing to that shortage.

    #1138550
    flatbusher
    Participant

    popa: yes, seems that way.

    #1138551
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Do you, popa and flatbusher, really think if a guy was in school or working and taking his learning seriously he would have a hard time with shidduchim? It seems, at least from the CR, that there are an awful lot of girls looking for such a shidduch…

    Is that not a reflection of real life?

    #1138552
    flatbusher
    Participant

    I can tell you from personal experience that there is a shortage of such guys. I don’t know how you can conclude from anything in CR that ther are “an awful lot of girls looking for such a shidduch.” The shadchanim we have been dealing with have not produced a single prospect that fits that description.

    #1138553
    Bored_on_the_Job
    Participant

    “I want a guy that does learn when he can. …-I want a guy that looks at himself realisticly and sees he cannot learn 8 hours a day but he can fit in 3 or 4.

    I have trouble concentrating for too long. 10 hours days of school are hard for me. But just because 10 hours is hard and I dont enjoy it doesn’t mean I can’t love 2 hours and hold on 2 hours of learning if I had every day. See my point?”

    I dont disagree with your post, however..

    Not enjoying learning or being able to learn 10 houes a day is not the only reason to not to be in kollel. PPL look down (wrongfully so) on someone who is not in kollel because they cant sit for 10 hours.

    Being able to help support your family is a very good reason to leave kollel. This day in age, to live a frum lifestyle a family needs 1.5 or 2 incomes. Maybe not right away, but down the road a family needs that.

    I think most girls underestimate the mesiras nefesh it takes to be responsible for raising kids as well as being the breadwinner.

    #1138554
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Wait, so are you agreeing or disagreeing with me that there aren’t many such guys?

    #1138555
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Do you, popa and flatbusher, really think if a guy was in school or working and taking his learning seriously he would have a hard time with shidduchim? It seems, at least from the CR, that there are an awful lot of girls looking for such a shidduch…

    What type of girl do you think is generally looking for that guy?

    But more importantly, what type of girl do you think the guys think is generally looking for that type of guy?

    #1138556
    flatbusher
    Participant

    Yeah, I agree there aren’t that many guys that fit that bill. I would imagine there is a nice percentage of guys now in bais medrash who would like to be one of those guys, but are under pressure to learn instead.

    #1138557
    Gales
    Participant

    These seminaries must be doing an incredible job. They take a girl who has had 12 years of schooling and 17 years of parental chinuch. And in the short 9 months they have her, they radicalize her. They convince her to abandon all the wonderful values of her schooling and upbringing and instead, marry a kollel guy and live in suffering and poverty.

    WOW!

    #1138559
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “It seems, at least from the CR, that there are an awful lot of girls looking for such a shidduch…”

    Yes, but are their parents, teachers and friends? She might want one thing, but will look for something else because that is what everyone else expects her to look for.

    #1138560
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    What type of girl do you think is generally looking for that guy?

    The Shopping613 type.

    But more importantly, what type of girl do you think the guys think is generally looking for that type of guy?

    The same type as his long term learner friends.

    #1138561
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I would imagine there is a nice percentage of guys now in bais medrash who would like to be one of those guys, but are under pressure to learn instead.

    Where’s that pressure from? If from the (seminary brainwashed) girls, were going in circles.

    Either way, if those guys are in the Bais Medrash (which I agree to), that’s where the girls should look for them.

    #1138562
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    These seminaries must be doing an incredible job. They take a girl who has had 12 years of schooling and 17 years of parental chinuch. And in the short 9 months they have her, they radicalize her. They convince her to abandon all the wonderful values of her schooling and upbringing and instead, marry a kollel guy and live in suffering and poverty.

    Or, the 12 years of schooling and 17 years of parents have done a terrible job.

    #1138563
    flatbusher
    Participant

    The pressure is not from the girls but from society that expects young men to sit and learn, especially if they are looking for a “good” shidduch. I wish society gave equal respect to learners/earners, but it doesn’t.

    #1138564
    flatbusher
    Participant

    Gales: I think that is a bit of exaggeration and quite dramatic, so maybe you are being facetious. Seminary doesn’t convince her to abandon her values, they just push one particular path, which a number of parents support anyway. They don’t all live in suffering and poverty, only those whose families can’t afford to follow what the wealthier can do but whose child doesn’t understand that.

    #1138565
    shuli
    Participant

    I agree, sem is a scam. It’s promoted as a ‘once in a lifetime experience you’ll never have the opportunity to have again’ and that fear sells. I can’t count how many of my friends went because “If I don’t go, I’ll never be able to have another chance!” That’s so ridiculous! Many girls specifically DO NOT want to go, but their parents and teachers convince them it’s the ‘right’ thing to do to get a shidduch. What is this? Four years in a frum high school wasn’t enough?

    Forget about the costs (to the parents! Why are they supporting this nonsense?!) of sending your child to Israel, bringing them home for pesach and/or simchas. Oh yeah, and these sems don’t even host your daughter for the shabbossim she will spend away from home, she has to find ‘hosts’ to have her! AND THEN THESE GIRLS HAVE TO BUY THEIR HOST A GIFT! I heard this first-hand from my classmates who are now in Israel. I couldn’t believe it. They go thru thousands of dollars in spending money, as all the American products they are used to are more costly than they are aware, but who cares if it’s tatty’s money, right?

    And let’s not forget about the fact that for every girl saying that sem is so “Amaaaazzziiinggg” there is another who isn’t really enjoying herself, misses home, hates the food, and is counting the days until it’s over. But they’d never admit it. They go along with their friends saying they’re having a great time because ‘everyone else seems to like it’. It’s a sem culture.

    I’m glad I made the choice to skip sem. I didn’t have the heart to ask my parents for thirty grand for a big joke. I would’ve had the time of my life, but the price is a little too high for a year-long party.

    I’m now at a local college, and I can also say it’s “ammmaaaazzzzinggg”, I’m learning stuff, making friends, and I don’t rely on my (not very wealthy) parents to pay for it, as I also work part-time.

    #1138566
    flatbusher
    Participant

    shuli: kudos to you for your mature decision. It seems over the years more girls are skipping seminary in Israel. When my first daughter went to seminary only three or four girls out of 70 didn’t go; now more are staying home. Maybe reality is setting in, finally.

    #1138567
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “more girls are skipping seminary in Israel.”

    the proliferation of seminaries in the USA over the last 3 years bears this out.

    in a twist of irony, parents of young women who go to e’y for the year are often advised by shadchanim to wait a few months so their daughters can readjust while those who go to seminary in the US are already being redt shidduchim by the time pesach of their 1st yr out of high school rolls around (often sooner). these girls often have 3/4 a year to a year head start in shidduchim turning the “its the right thing for shidduchim” argument on its head.

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