October 17, 2013 2:52 am at 2:52 am #610919jwashingMember
I know someone who took the PSAT’s today and they told me that the principal told the sephardis to fill in hispanic for there race. Now the qualify for more college scholarships and have more of a chance of getting accepted to college. Good to knowOctober 17, 2013 3:22 am at 3:22 am #981463jewishfeminist02Member
I also know a South African girl who filled in “African-American”. Personally, I think this sort of thing is geneivas da’as and should not be encouraged.October 17, 2013 3:33 am at 3:33 am #981464–Participant
Hispanic is an ethnicity not a race. Although and individual can self-identify with any race or ethnicity the census bureau defines “Spanish/Hispanic/Latino” as “a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race”. Encouraging students to identify as Hispanic sounds like fraud to skew the school’s results.October 17, 2013 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #981467heretohelpMember
That principal was incorrect.October 17, 2013 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #981468
Moroccans and Tunisians could theoretically identify as African-American, and Persians and Bukharans could call themselves Asians.
But Sephardim are not Hispanic unless they are Spanish-Portuguese.October 17, 2013 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #981469
Racial identification is highly subjective.
Sephardic Jews are Spaniards by origin; we branched out to the Near East and to many nations in Latin America. In fact, many Hispanics are really bnei anusim and are of Jewish seed (Hispanics with last names such as Abreu-which means Hebrew, Benzaquen, etc. are Jewish, or at least, mi zera yisrael). And Benjamin Cardozo, a”h, is considered the first Hispanic on the Supreme Court.
In the case of what this principal did, I oppose it 100%. Also, Sephardim in this country are enormously wealthy, and predominately Syrian. Many Syrians aren’t Sephardic, but are Mizrachim; i.e. they have no origins or roots in Spain. Also, they’re loaded and have no right to take advantage of scholarships that are owed to poor and disenfranchised kids. These are people whose fathers are involved in all kinds of commerce and businesses, including Duane Reade, Jordache, Crazy Eddy, Century 21, Strawberry, Conway, and others, and not always honestly, as you can recall from the FBI raids on that community in 2008.October 17, 2013 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #981470
Ummm…rebdoniel, while saying you’re Hispanic when you’re not is pretty dishonest, the poster did not specify what kind of Sephardim the PSAT-takers were. For all you know they were Bukharans living below the poverty level.
Your thought process (Sephardim -> Syrians -> rich -> cheaters) is twisted.October 17, 2013 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #981471metrodriverMember
Rebdoniel: I strongly object to the last paragraph in your post. Especially, the concluding words in the last two lines. It is not fair or proper to paint an entire community with a wide brush. Besides. Most of the people (Jews and non-Jews alike) who were ensnared in the trap of that infamous criminal Shlomo Dwek were completely innocent. Including the 93 year old rabbi of the community.
In my humble opinion, the entire premise of giving preference to so-called Hispanics is unfair. I personally consider myself to be Hispanic for two reasons. 1) I resided in a Spanish-speaking country for over Three years.: 2) I daven Nusach S’phard.October 17, 2013 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #981472
Bukharians aren’t Sephardic; they’re Mizrachim, descendants of Persians. And thus, having them check a racial box that doesn’t apply to them is patently absurd and dishonest, especially since most of their surnames end in -ov or -ova, which are very Russian sounding.
A huge issue and problem is that the Ashkenazim and the rabbinical establishment they upheld in Israel basically lump together any Jews who aren’t Ashkenaz as Sephardic, which is grossly inaccurate.
Mizrachim are Jews who lived in the Near East since the time of the diaspora (70 CE).
Sephardim are those Jews who have a documented origin in the Iberian Peninsula. Halabi Syrians, Turkish, Greek, Western European Spanish and Portuguese, Bulgarian, and other Ladino-speaking Jews are Sephardic. Their roots are in Spain.
Persian, Bukharian, Gorskiy, Yemenite, Shami Syrian, some Morroccan, Libyan, and other Middle Eastern Jews are Mizrachim; they’re not of Spanish and Portuguese origins.
The greatest absurdity in the current 2-rabbi system is that Ethiopian Jews are considered Sephardic! (Which is an utterly ridiculous preposition to make).
And wallflower, having a paternal grandmother whose parents emigrated here from Aleppo, I can make such claims with full confidence and with full knowledge of the realities at play.October 17, 2013 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #981473
“I also know a South African girl who filled in “African-American”.
Last I checked, South Africa was still on the African continent.
And why cant “sephardim” be hispanics? There are “sephardic” communities in El Salvador, Panama, Mexico among other Central American countries.October 17, 2013 4:56 pm at 4:56 pm #981474gavra_at_workParticipant
Agree with JF, etc. Only if they came from a Hispanic country are they Hispanic. I knew a Jew who came from Columbia to the US, and that would be OK (IMHO). Just because you are Sephardic does not make one hispanic.
P.S. The white African American is technically correct. It is not his.her fault they were not more specific regarding color or other requirements. Or is an African American with Micheal Jackson Syndrome also excluded due to the color of their skin?October 17, 2013 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #981475yaakov doeParticipant
A lot of South African Jews and Morocan Jews list themselves as African Americans sice they are from Africa. Hispanics aren’t from Spain or Sefardic countries but are descendants of the natives colonized by the Spanish conquers.October 17, 2013 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #981476MDGParticipant
rebdaniel said: “Sephardic Jews are Spaniards by origin; we branched out to the Near East and to many nations in Latin America.”
RD, if I remember correctly, you are Yemenite, which is not really Sephardic.October 17, 2013 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #981477Yserbius123Participant
Technically, many Sephardim can be considered Arabs.October 17, 2013 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #981478
“For all you know they were Bukharans living below the poverty level.”
Not as twisted as stating that perhaps these hispanics were bukharans.October 17, 2013 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #981479akupermaParticipant
The usual definitions of Hispanic include being from the Americas with a mixture of Spanish culture. Thus by those definitions, an Ashkenazi from Argentina is Hispanic, but a Sefardi from Greece is not. Remember that Hispanic culture is a mixture of Iberian culture with that of the Native Americans and the Africans who came as slaves to Latin America.
If the survey makes being Hispanic dependent on coming from “Spain or Portugal” without requiring the American ancestry (using an “or” rather than an “and”), a Sefardi can claim to be Hispanic.October 17, 2013 6:40 pm at 6:40 pm #981480
My dad’s mother is Syrian; his father, Yemenite, which means that I’m “supposed” to follow Yemenite minhagim and nusach hatefillah.October 17, 2013 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #981481–Participant
RD, if I remember correctly, you are Yemenite, which is not really Sephardic.
But he does self-identify as Sephardic.October 17, 2013 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #981482Avram in MDParticipant
And wallflower, having a paternal grandmother whose parents emigrated here from Aleppo, I can make such claims with full confidence and with full knowledge of the realities at play.
Having a connection to a community does not give you the authority or the right to tar that community as a whole.October 17, 2013 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #981483Bookworm120Participant
Well, Spaniards are different from Hispanics. Spaniards are from Spain. Hispanics are from the other countries that speak Spanish or Portuguese because they were conquered back in the day.
Remember how in the Zimmerman trial, the reporters insisted on calling Zimmerman a “white Hispanic” just so they could say it was a racially-motivated white on black murder. >.<
Additionally, I’m also thinking of the case of a guy from Africa who emigrated to the US for school, but was thrown out because he called himself as a “white African-American.” Apparently, that’s considered racist against black people.
Sephardim from the Middle East are Sephardi in nusach, but they definitely aren’t Spaniards or Hispanics. I don’t really know what to say if you’re forced to classify your ethnicity for official forms. If there’s an option for “Other,” probably that’s your best bet.October 17, 2013 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #981484jewishfeminist02Member
The term “African-American”, regardless of what you think its meaning *should* be, is defined as black Americans of African descent. Google it if you’re skeptical.October 17, 2013 10:05 pm at 10:05 pm #981485heretohelpMember
I self-identify as an indian chief, but that doesn’t mean I actually am an indian chief.October 17, 2013 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #981486
“Bukharians aren’t Sephardic; they’re Mizrachim.”
Excuse me for forgetting to specify that by “Sephardim” I meant “people who pray in nusach Edot Hamizrach.”October 17, 2013 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #981487writersoulMember
FOR THE COLLEGE BOARD, your Hispanicness (Hispanicity? 🙂 )is determined by self identity and refers not to your ethnicity but your identity. It meant for people from or identifying with South America, Spain and Portugal. The definition is notorious for being very loose- I could have filled in the Hispanic bubble on the PSAT because my grandmother is Argentinean and it would be 100% legitimate, as the Hispanic influence is definitely there. The race and ethnicity have absolutely no relevance. (In the end I did NOT put it down as I still don’t feel it’s honest even though it’s legitimate.)
If you are Sefardi, chances are your ancestors left Spain (if they ever were in Spain, which is obviously up for debate) in or before 1492 unless you’re descended from Marranos. Sorry, but that doesn’t even begin to make sense.
Also, African-American IS a racial designation to the College Board, so that white South Africans are NOT part of that group.October 18, 2013 1:47 am at 1:47 am #981488jwashingMember
wikipedia states on jewish ethnic page “Historically, Jews have been identified into two major groups: the Ashkenazim, or “Germanics” (“Ashkenaz” meaning “Germany” in Medieval Hebrew, denoting their Central European base), and the Sephardim, or “Hispanics” (“Sefarad” meaning “Hispania” or “Iberia” in Hebrew, denoting their Spanish and Portuguese base). The far more recent term Mizrahim, or “Easterners” (“Mizrach” being “East” in Hebrew) to include Middle Eastern and North African Jews, constitutes a third major group to some, following the partition of Palestine, their often-forced migration, and the re-establishment of their communities in Israel.”October 18, 2013 2:12 am at 2:12 am #981489Sam2Participant
Unless I’m mistaken, many Yemenites still signed the Samech Tet throughout history.October 18, 2013 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #981490
according to that definition, haitians should classify themselves as hispanic. they share the island of hispaniola with the dominican republic. how many creole speaking hispanic people do you know?October 18, 2013 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #981491writersoulMember
apy: for college purposes yes, they are Hispanic. This is a VERY wide-ranging definition- however, one thing it almost certainly doesn’t cover is people whose last Spanish ancestors left in 1492.October 20, 2013 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #981493flyerParticipant
there was just a story that a boy wrote african american on his application (His parents were South African). When he got to the interview they threw him out. He sued – said he was really african american and won!October 21, 2013 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #981494
haitians do not qualify as hispanic (i used to work in recuritment at a large univeristy) unless the rule was changed and the definition broadened in the last 18 months. then again, if whoever makes the rules also defines hispanic to suit their needs then I suppose anyone they wish to consider hispanic would qualify.August 23, 2020 11:47 am at 11:47 am #1894568SubhanAllahParticipant
Why is this even a debate, all of you should understand that Am Yisrael has always had an ethnic component, labeling ourselves with categories that come solely from the Nakhrim is complete Chukat HaGoyim and a big Chilul HaShem. We must remember the implications and meanings of Zera Yaakov.September 1, 2020 10:26 am at 10:26 am #1897560n0mesorahParticipant
It is something that was clearly done in the times of the gemara, 1500 years ago. And was likely done in blibical times as well.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.